Blowing Off Virtual Steam?
On Oct 17, 2004, at 10:31 AM, Tony Smith wrote:
“Jack, you say that you have a”
.. spherically symmetric exotic vacuum halo ZPF field concentric with the center of mass of the Sun ... ... It's not a thin shell. ... It's a sphere of zero point energy density extending out beyond the Sun falling off as 1/r in this static first Newtonian approximation that is good enough for the actual data. ...
“and that you get a 1/r falloff rate for dark energy by”
".. Curve fitting the data. A battle-tested empirical method. That assumption gives the "constant" c^2/LpR(t) from solving Poisson's equation with spherical symmetry ...
“and you ask".
.. 1/r is not at all implausible is it? ...
“What about the infinite density of dark energy at r = 0 at the center of the sun?”
There is no infinity! You did not read my equations carefully. It's finite at r = 0. You are only looking at the large scale limiting case!
“if your dark energy density varies continuously as 1/r from r = 0 out to at least r = 100 AU, then how do you account for the fact that the Pioneer data showed normal acceleration while they were within 20 AU of the sun, roughly the orbit of Uranus,
and then only when they got beyond Uranus, or about 20 AU (currently observations are of distances from 20 to 70 AU) did the anomalous acceleration show up?”
I only gave a first approximation. Closer in there will be all sorts of perturbations. If what you say is true, then I can see why you got the spherical shell idea. Write up your analysis of the data and I will include it. So you are saying it's as if the Sun blew off a "smoke ring" of exotic vacuum – actually blasted out a thick spherical shell that has expanded to ~ 50 AU so far? Sort of like an invisible supernova explosion of invisible virtual stuff? OK that's an interesting idea. Write it up. I don't care about the particular /\zpf functional spatio-temporal dependence - that must be fitted to data.
“For example, in http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0104064 Anderson et al say: ‘Beginning in 1980, when at a distance of 20 astronomical units (AU) from the Sun ... we found that the largest systematic error in the acceleration residuals was a constant bias, aP , directed toward the Sun. Such anomalous data have been continuously received ever since.’
In your model, what happens at 20 AU to account for that transition?”
OK fair enough. Good point. I wish you said that sooner. :-) Write it up the way you want me to quote you.
On Oct 17, 2004, at 11:43 AM, Tony Smith wrote:
“Jack, here is a revised rough write-up of what I am thinking about Pioneer,
adding the Higgs-eating bit that you mentioned just now.
In http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0104064 Anderson et al say:
‘Beginning in 1980, when at a distance of 20 astronomical units (AU) from the Sun ... we found that the largest systematic error in the acceleration residuals was a constant bias, aP , directed toward the Sun. Such anomalous data have been continuously received ever since.’
Therefore, there must be some sort of transition in our solar system around the orbit of Uranus (about 20 AU) in which gravity changes from its usual state (for us who are in the interior of our solar system) to another state for beyond the solar system interior, due which the Pioneer anomalous acceleration occurs. The model that I like is a 2-phase model based on Segal's work which has two phases with different metrics …”
I don’t like this model. It is too complicated and the effect is more parsimoniously modeled with my theory based only on Einstein’s theory of gravity and a tiny bit more.
“I will also note that Carlos Castro says that Nottale gets similar results by also using two metrics, one of which has a dilation-type factor.”
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
“Jack Sarfatti has a 2-phase dark energy / dark matter model that can give a similar anomalous acceleration in regions where c^2 /\ dark energy / dark matter is effectively present with a 1/r density pattern.”
The 1/r is not fundamental. The idea is to find the r-dependence that fits the data. It’s easy to model the spherical shell model as well if that is what is called for by the evidence.
“If there is a phase transition (around Uranus at 20 AU) whereby ordinary matter dominates inside that distance from the sun and exotic dark energy / dark matter appears at greater distances, then Jack's model could also explain the Pioneer anomaly
and it may be that Jack's model with ordinary and exotic phases and my model with deSitter/Poincare and Conformal phases may be two ways of looking at the same thing.”
No, I am pretty sure that is not true, because my conservative model is complete needing only a very small number of mainstream battle-tested ideas. There may well be exotic effects like what you are pointing to, but the Pioneer 10/11 data has no need for them as far as I can see at this moment. Keep it as simple as possible, but not simpler than is possible.
“As to what might be the physical mechanism of the phase transition, Jack says:”
Rest masses of [ordinary matter] particles require the smooth non-random Higgs Ocean which soaks up the choppy random troublesome zero point energy
“In other words in a region in which ordinary matter is dominant, such as the Sun and our solar system, the mass-giving action of the Higgs mechanism "soaks up" the Dark Energy zero point conformal degrees of freedom that are dominant in low-ordinary mass regions of our universe (which are roughly the intergalactic voids that occupy most of the volume of our universe).”
Almost, however, I do not need conformal degrees of freedom to explain the dark energy. Dark energy is simply uncompensated micro-quantum zero point energy density mostly of virtual electron-positron pairs and virtual photons in the low energy sector. You do not need torsion, conformal and dilation compensating macro-quantum fields to supplement Einstein’s 1915 metric field to explain the exotic vacua in terms of current evidence. We may be able to make such fields artificially with metric engineering, but like real anti-matter, there is no evidence for spontaneous large amounts of them in our brane world. In the case of the real anti-matter, it’s in the universe next door to which we are connected by tiny wormhole throats that can be thought of as strings with each end attached to a pair of dual branes. These Wheeler “Mass without mass” micro-geon hidden variable wormhole throat “topological defect” strings are threaded by closed Faraday quantized flux lines of Wheeler’s “Charge without charge”. The electric, weak, and strong fluxes threading the wormhole throats are quantized because of the single-valuedness of the local macro-quantum coherent phase rigid Higgs Ocean order parameter. The total electrical neutrality of our brane shows it is in a kind of “anti-ferromagnetic” ground state. For example, electric flux lines all leave the proton wormhole mouths, like parallel spins on a sub-lattice, and all enter the the electron wormhole mouths, like anti-parallel spins on the second sub-lattice, on the same brane floating in hyperspace.
“It may be that the observation of the Pioneer phase transition at Uranus from ordinary to anomalous acceleration is an experimental result that gives us a first look at dark energy/dark matter phenomena that could lead to energy sources that could be even more important than the nuclear energy discovered during the past century.”
That’s exactly right. That’s a fact shown on the NIDS website that has just been shut down just when we are getting close to The Truth Out There as we touch The Face of God going up, up, up going up, like The Birds (Aviary) do fly. We shall drop in on Mars and flirt with the stars. (From a WWI song on The Curtis Wright Aeroplanes sung to me by my grandmother, Eva Jacobson, in the early days of WWII). However, we do not need your conformal degrees of freedom – not yet. Not for this Pioneer 10/11 Anomaly.
“PS - I have a bit about Pioneer written up on my web site at
with some other related material (especially about Segal conformal stuff) on the rest of that page and some related pages.”
Yes, put all your details up there for those interested. Right now, I think what you propose is a sledgehammer to swat a fly. We may need to roll in the torsion and conformal heavy artillery for something else in the pursuit of warp, wormhole and weapon.