## Tuesday, August 31, 2004

Remember in thermodynamics

Pressure = -d(Internal Energy)/d(Volume)|fixed temperature etc..

If the pressure is positive, increase the volume decreases the internal energy.

If the pressure is negative, increase the volume increases the internal energy.

This means you need to do work to increase the volume!

In the case of the EVO charge cluster, the interior core of the shell of N electrons at radius

a ~ N^1/2(h/mc)

is exotic vacuum dark energy with negative pressure because

1. All virtual ZPF quanta have w = pressure/(energy density) = -1 NOT +1/3

2. Boson quantum statistics require positive virtual photon energy density, therefore negative pressure.

3. In Einstein gravity pressure dominates energy density by a factor of 3. Indeed, without that there would be no gravity lensing with the famous factor of 2.

4. Therefore, in dynamical equilibrium the repulsive N-electron Coulomb barrier does virtual work against the negative ZPF pressure inside the shell. The ZPF pressure is zero outside the shell in ordinary vacuum where /\zpf = 0. This is directly opposite to what Hal Puthoff proposes! Hal has positive ZPF pressure outside the shell with zero ZPF pressure inside the shell. I have the mirror image with negative ZPF pressure inside the shell and zero ZPF pressure outside the shell.

My balance equation, ignoring inessentials is simply

V = Repulsive Coulomb Self-Energy per electron mass of the N poly-electron spherical shell + Dark Energy ZPF Potential Energy per electron mass (dimension is (velocity)^2)

i.e.,

V = +(Ne)^2/mr + c^2/\zpfr^2

/\zpf > 0 is NEGATIVE ZPF PRESSURE

Equilibrium is at

dV/dr = 0 at r = a

Stability requires

d^2V/dr^2 > 0

Phase transition from a positive second derivative to a negative one releases dark energy as "cold fusion."
Energy is the exotic stuff of weightless warps, wide wormholes and weird weapons.

In a message dated 8/31/2004 4:58:13 PM Central Daylight Time, sarfatti@pacbell.net writes:

[Jack] I do not understand what you mean by Coulomb pressure? Do
you compute the electric field E(a) at the shell at radius a, i.e. E(a)
~ (Ne)^2/a^2 and then compute the electrostatic energy density ~
E(a)^2/8pi? Is that what you mean?

[Hal] "Yes."

[Jack] Even if that is what you mean, I do
not see how anything gets "balanced" here? You have a "classical"
electrostatic energy density and a micro-quantum ZPF virtual photon
density. Both are positive. In what sense do they balance?

[Hal] "Force balance.  The ZPE pressure (as in Milonni et al.'s paper "Radiation pressure from the vacuum: Physical interpretation of the Casimir force", Phys. Rev. A, Vol. 38, No. 3, pp. 1621-1623, 1988) outside the sphere presses inward, and there being no pressure from within the ZPE-depleted sphere - - at least from below the Compton freq - - pressing outward, so the net ZPE pressure is inward. This is what balances (with stability) the outward Coulomb pressure.  This is specifically displayed in http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408114 ."

[Jack now] Oh! So you assume that there is "no pressure from within the ZPE-depleted sphere". OK at least that makes sense logically although I think the model is false - now at least I see what the idea was, which I did not see before. In my view the effective spherical cavity of N electrons, each of area ~ (h/mc)^2, tiled around the spherical surface at radius a ~ N^1/2(h/mc) supports all spherical virtual photon mode eigenfunctions of wavelength approximately 2a or maybe 4a down to some short wave cutoff - maybe h/mc maybe smaller. That is, I think of the interior of the spherical cavity as a band-pass filter with a long wave cut-off of ~ a and and short wave cutoff that is not really known - maybe h/mc. The outside would not have the long wave cutoff at all - or it would be something like the Hubble horizon at ~ 10^28 cm. I suppose you call this Casimir Type I model. Of course, Casimir had no concept of my /\zpf field. Note that

/\zpf ~ (short wavelength cut-off)^-2[(short wavelength cut-off)^3|Vacuum Coherence|^2 - 1]

Where Vacuum Coherence is a LOCAL "ODLRO" smooth c-number complex scalar field obeying an Einstein GCT covariant nonlinear partial differential equation with essentially the "inflation"/"Higgs" type "Mexican Hat Potential".

Einstein's LOCAL metric tensor guv field (there is a self-creating bootstrap here) comes from the robust macro-quantum phase of the Vacuum Coherence via the LOCAL GCT first rank world distortion tensor at event P

du = (short wavelength cut-off)^2(phase of Vacuum Coherence),u

,u is ordinary partial derivative relative to x^u(P) a local coordinate chart at event P

guv = nuv + (du,v + dv,u)/2

nuv is the globally flat constant Minkowski metric tensor WITHOUT ANY GRAVITY!

When Vacuum Coherence = 0 we are back to the unstable globally flat pre-inflationary FALSE VACUUM!
This is where the virtual electron-positron pairs fail to bind into a vacuum condensate like a superconductor above critical temperature.

The GCT tensor transformations derive from the U(1) local gauge transformations on the Vacuum Coherence.

Physics is simple when it's local. Macro-quantum physics is local because ODLRO order parameters are local and also they are of lower relative entropy which solves Roger Penrose's dilemma of the origin of the Arrow of Time for the Second Law of Thermodynamics in the inflation theory. The Vacuum Coherence at large-scale is the post-inflationary field and at small-scale is the Higgs field for the rest mass inertia of the lepto-quarks not from random virtual photon acceleration friction, but from vacuum coherence.

The DYNAMICAL BACKGROUND INDEPENDENT world elasticity tensor (du,v + dv,u)/2 is NOT SMALL! This is not perturbation theory. guv is a smooth c-number function and you can also in addition must add a spin 2 GCT tensor huv "graviton" quantum field to it that is like its "normal fluid" source-sink.

Defining the Levi-Civita connection from first partial derivatives of guv in usual way without torsion (added later perhaps along with other conformal gauge fields) gives

Guv + /\zpfguv = 0

The exotic vacuum equation where Tuv is not fundamental, but emerges from micro-geon exotic vacuum solutions.

/\zpf > 0 is dark energy with negative pressure causing STRONG short-scale anti-gravity.

/\zpf < 0 is dark matter with positive pressure causing STRONG short-scale gravity

In fact Ken Shoulders EVO's need dark energy cores! The N-poly-electron "shell" or cavity of radius

a ~ N^1/2(h/mc) is a "Dark Energy Bottle".

Mike Turner said it couldn't be done! (April 2003, Physics Today Op/Ed) Well Ken Shoulders seems to have done it anyway!

Break the bottle and the Dark Energy Genie escapes as anomalous "Cold Fusion".

Dark Energy is the exotic stuff of weightless warps, wide wormholes and weird weapons.

I am here giving Hal's remarks without detailed comment. I will comment in detail in Part II after I have had a chance to think about what he says here.

From Hal Puthoff

In a message dated 8/30/2004 7:19:16 PM Central Daylight Time, sarfatti@pacbell.net asks several questions, all of which are answered here:

[Hal]  "I have spotted your source of confusion, so I will carry you through the arguments in detail in order to clear up the confusion.  They are implicit in http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408114 , but apparently it was not transparent.

The source of confusion is this: Since Casimir suggested the model I evaluate, you may have assumed that we are talking about the (relatively weak) "Casimir force" model.  We are not.  Just because Casimir suggested this model and therefore his name is associated with it, this does not mean it has anything to do with the "Casimir force."  It does not.  The so-called "Casimir  force" has to do with partially canceling vacuum fluctuation fields determined by cavity geometries.  This other Casimir-suggested model I'm dealing with has essentially nothing to do with cavity characteristics.  This should all become transparent as we walk through the math.

BTW, I acknowledge that you offer a cosmological model for charge cluster formation, and that is OK, but this is something different.  I am not offering an alternative cosmological model, different from yours.  This is a different kind of model, a quantum physics model.  In the real world of empirical results my quantum physics model may apply, your vacuum cosmology model may apply, or a combination of both may apply.  I have no argument with your claim that my model may not apply.  I do have an argument with your claim that I have not done my model correctly because it does not coincide with your take on the problem at hand.

[Jack now] Not "cosmological model" but "cosmological motivated model" OK.

Ansatz: Wheeler's "geometrodynamics" as a model for elementary particles as spatially-extended "Mass without mass" purely vacuum "micro-geons" works because the effective strength of gravity in exotic vacua is large on short scales. This is a new micro-physics that demands Bohm's pilot wave - hidden variable interpretation of micro-quantum theory. Quantized charges are quantized fluxes from single-valuedness of the macro-quantum LOCAL order parameter out of which Einstein's LOCAL smooth c-number exotic vacuum field equation

Guv + /\zpfguv = 0

EMERGES. This equation is assumed to be valid down to at least 10^-16 cm.

The FRW homogeneous isotropic cosmological metric of course does not hold at this scale. Instead something like the purely vacuum Kerr-Newman metric is expected generalized for /\zpf =/= 0.

[Jack]  You seem to be saying, correct me if I am wrong, that the POSITIVE
virtual photon ZPF energy density is

u(virtual photon) ~ hc(h/mc)^-4 ~ 10^-27 10^10 (10-11)-4 ~
(10^-17)(10^44) ~ 10^27 ergs/cc

Yes? No?

[Hal]  Yes on equation, though for magnitude I get 1.8 x 10^23 ergs/cc.  (Not a big issue here.)

[Jack now] Where is that 10^3 from? A fine structure constant factor? I was basically only doing a dimensional analysis in the back-of-the-envelope estimate above.

[Jack]  You next say that the POSITIVE virtual photon pressure is

P(virtual photon) ~ (1/3)u(virtual photon)

[Hal] Yes

[Jack now] OK so one definite point of real disagreement here is that you say

P(virtual photon) ~ (1/3)u(virtual photon) Puthoff

I say

P(virtual photon) ~ - u(virtual photon) Sarfatti

[Jack] That's a very BIG PRESSURE of course

[Hal] "Yes, indeed.  That's why it has the potential to balance the the large coulomb pressure."

[Jack] You have ZERO VACUUM COHERENCE here in the sense that I mean it.

[Hal]  "Definitely.  This is the standard, random vacuum EM ZPF quantum fluctuation field."

[Jack]  OK, a typical EVO has an electron shell of radius a ~ 10^-5 - 10^-6 cm
says Ken Shoulders.

[Hal]  "Actually, for the witness marks it's 1 - 10 microns, or 10^-5 - 10^-6 m; however, the "bomb" that caused the crater may be more on the order of the dimensions you give, so that's OK (a minor point here)"

[Jack now] OK that's a factor of 10^2 larger in size, i.e. N ~ 10^16 not 10^12 for the smaller EVOs.

[Jack] Now you and I both agree that

N^1/2(h/mc) ~ a

[Hal] "OK, within an order of magnitude."

[Jack]  Let's take a ~ 10^-5 cm, h/mc ~ 10^-11 cm

Therefore N ~ 10^12 electrons close-packed to make a thin spherical
shell 100 nanometers across that is 10^-4 nanometers thick. Right? Yes?
No? Are we on the same page here?

[Hal] "You will note from my paper http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408114 , 5th equation in Section 3,  that for 10^12 electrons, the diameter d ~ N^1/2 x (h-bar/mc) ~ 400 nm, close enough."

[Jack] The electrostatic self energy is

U(self-energy) ~ +(Ne)^2/a ~ N^2(1/137)hc/a ~
(10^24)(10^-2)(10^-27)(10^10)(10^5) ~ (10^39)(10-29) ~ 10^10 ergs ~ 1
kilojoule.

[Hal]  "OK, I get about half that, close enough."

[Jack now] I am ignoring factors of pi, 1/2 etc. This is only rough.

[Jack] Now what virtual photon modes are allowed outside the spherical shell,

[Hal]  "Essentially all, not constrained outside to first order."

[Jack now] Yes I agree with that.

[Jack] and what modes inside the shell are allowed according to you?

[Hal]  "In Casimir's "Model 2" -- see paper --  only those modes whose frequency > Compton frequency cutoff."

[Jack now] OK, I do not understand the physical plausibility for that assumption. Thinking of a closed cavity of radius a ~ 10-5 cm --> 10^-5 meters (depending on conditions of EVO manufacture), wavelengths larger than "a" should be cut off by the boundary conditions. I do not understand why you only will permit wavelengths less than 10^-11 cm inside a cavity that is from one million to a one hundred million times larger? Please explain this mystery.

BTW Do you assume f = ck here? Of course that is not really true for virtual photons. It would be possible to have both

f > mc^2/h = Compton low frequency cutoff

and

k > pi/a

Since f =/= ck for virtual ZPF photons.

However

f > mc^2/h = Compton low frequency cutoff

is not physically obvious to me and needs justification.

In contrast

k > pi/a

is physically obvious, i.e. one cannot fit wavelengths into the cavity larger than roughly the diameter of the cavity.

Hal: "This cutoff model is not according to me, it's according to Casimir."

Jack: "Then maybe this is Casimir's greatest blunder?" ;-)

Note Einstein called his cosmological constant his "greatest blunder" - in fact it wasn't. I think Hawking's latest flip-flop on information loss down a black hole at GR 17 really is his greatest blunder. But I could be wrong.

Hal" Unlike the "Casimir force" model ("Model 1" that you have considered) where interior modes that satisfy the boundary conditions are permitted and thus the  problem can be treated as a cavity boundary value problem, Casimir's "Model 2" is one in which cavity modes play no role.  Rather, it is a model in which individual electron-ZPE interactions on the surface of the sphere is where the action is, and for the close-packed shell (each surface electron taking up a Compton-sized disk), interior EM modes are taken to be shielded up to the Compton cutoff frequency.  Realize that this is Casimir's model, not mine.  Don't shoot the messenger!  :-)"

[Jack now] Well you explained it a little, but I still do not understand it. I cannot instantly picture what Casimir was seeing when he suggested this. It makes no instant sense to me at this moment. It would make some sense if it was the virtual electron-positron pairs that dominated and there was some kind of plasma frequency shielding effect over the scale h/mc? Some kind of virtual plasma shield? But I would need to see the detailed equations.

[Jack] The radial outward electrostatic force F is therefore

10^10 ergs/10^-5 cm ~ 10^15 dynes

outward force of ONE THOUSAND TRILLION DYNES!

[Hal] "Force?"

[Jack now] I simply took the spherically symmetric Coulomb self-energy for 10^12 electrons in a shell of radius 10^-5 cm and divided by another 10-5 cm to get the radial gradient at the shell.

[Hal] "ZPE force/unit area ~ 10^23 dynes/cm^2 to balance coulomb pressure."

[Jack now] I do not understand what you mean by Coulomb pressure? Do you compute the electric field E(a) at the shell at radius a, i.e. E(a) ~ (Ne)^2/a^2 and then compute the electrostatic energy density ~ E(a)^2/8pi? Is that what you mean? Even if that is what you mean, I do not see how anything gets "balanced" here? You have a "classical" electrostatic energy density and a micro-quantum ZPF virtual photon density. Both are positive. In what sense do they balance? BTW the "classical" electrostatic field is also made of virtual photons but they are in macro-quantum coherent Glauber states (displaced minimum number-phase uncertainty Gaussian wave packets in the phase space of each mode oscillator).

What I was doing was looking for the virtual photon pressure differential between inside and outside the shell and converting that to a local radial force vector at each point on surface of the shell - using the spherical symmetry. I.e. multiply the pressure differential dP(virtual photons across shell) = dF/A by the area A of the shell to get the net radial force dF of virtual photons at each point on the surface of the shell.

[Jack]  If the only virtual photon modes allowed inside the N-electron shell
have wavelengths less than a = 10^-5 cm, then ... (snip) .......This is very small Hal.

[Hal]  "Your calculation here (yes, it is small) is based on the cavity model of the Casimir force (Model 1) in which (to first order) only long-wavelength cavity modes are cut off.  For Casimir's Model 2 (which is not the more familiar Casimir force cavity model) all modes below the Compton frequency of individual electron-ZPF interactions are cut off.  With regard to charge clusters this model may be applicable, it may be inapplicable.... but it IS the model!  (And, as I point out in http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408114 , it provides a reasonable match to the charge cluster data.  Your model may also.  May the best model win!)"

[Jack now] Model II seems like pulling a White Rabbit out of the Top Hat. I see no "there " there. No physical motivation. No plausible idea.

[Jack] Where does your
cutoff at h/mc even enter into the dP = P(Outside) - P(Inside) > 0

[Hal] "Hopefully this is now clear from the above discussion.   The basis for it derives from my Phys. Rev. paper:

H. E. Puthoff, "On the Source of Vacuum Electromagnetic Zero-Point Energy," Phys. Rev. A 40, 4857 (1989); Errata and Comments, Phys. Rev. A 44, 3382, 3385 (1991)

wherein it is argued that the vacuum fluctuation fields are not "hard-wired" into the fabric of spacetime, but rather are fields generated by the quantum fluctuation motion of charged particles distributed over cosmological space, and are therefore in principle capable of being shielded from compact regions of space by (as in Casimir's Model 2) electron-ZPF interactions."

[Jack now] This model is not at all even plausible because the fact is that the number of charged particles (on mass shell) in the universe is at most only ~ 4% of all the "stuff" in the universe. 96% of the stuff of the universe is off-mass-shell virtual stuff that both gravitates and anti-gravitates depending on the LOCAL intensity of vacuum coherence at the given scale of phenomena. A kind of Wheeler-Feynman "total absorber" condition model for the origin of say virtual photons from future absorptions is no longer tenable. That model must be rejected.

[snip]

[Jack] Therefore, Hal your prediction is TOO WEAK BY 33 POWERS OF
TEN!  As I said, the Casimir force is irrelevant to this problem!

[Hal]  Indeed, your prediction is too weak, and the Casimir force cavity model (Casimir Model 1) which you used is irrelevant to this problem.  Only a second model, also proposed by Casimir - - perhaps unfortunately, given the confusion - - is relevant.

[Jack now] Again I say the second model is in sore need of heuristic justification. It does not appear even plausible without more explanation of what Casimir had in mind?

[Jack] OK, if I have done the numbers above WRONG, show us all how to do it

[Hal] Done!

[Jack now] No because you have not clearly explained exactly what you mean by:

[Hal] "ZPE force/unit area ~ 10^23 dynes/cm^2 to balance coulomb pressure."

[Jack now] This is very obscure.

Collegially,

Hal"

## Monday, August 30, 2004

In a message dated 8/29/2004 1:24:31 PM Central Daylight Time, sarfatti@pacbell.net writes:

Hal's Type II model is Rube Goldberg. He takes a short-wavelength cutoff at h/mc which is adhoc.

Hal: "Not so.  Read Weisskopf.  Read Bethe.  Read Callen and Welton.  Compton frequency is taken to be the cutoff for electron interaction with the vacuum fluctuations."

Jack: Of course I have read Weisskopf & Bethe papers on the Lamb shift with the high frequency virtual photon cutoff at h/2mc. I fail to see how choosing that particular cutoff helps your case with EVOS?

You seem to be saying, correct me if I am wrong, that the POSITIVE virtual photon ZPF energy density is

u(virtual photon) ~ hc(h/mc)^-4 ~ 10^-27 10^10 (10-11)-4 ~ (10^-17)(10^44) ~ 10^27 ergs/cc

Yes? No?

You next say that the POSITIVE virtual photon pressure is

P(virtual photon) ~ (1/3)u(virtual photon)

That's a very BIG PRESSURE of course apart from the fact that w = -1 not +1/3 for all virtual quanta of all species.

You have ZERO VACUUM COHERENCE here in the sense that I mean it.

OK, a typical EVO has an electron shell of radius a ~ 10^-5 - 10^-6 cm says Ken Shoulders.

Now you and I both agree that

N^1/2(h/mc) ~ a

Let's take a ~ 10^-5 cm, h/mc ~ 10^-11 cm

Therefore N ~ 10^12 electrons close-packed to make a thin spherical shell 100 nanometers across that is 10^-4 nanometers thick. Right? Yes? No? Are we on the same page here?

The electrostatic self energy is

U(self-energy) ~ +(Ne)^2/a ~ N^2(1/137)hc/a ~ (10^24)(10^-2)(10^-27)(10^10)(10^5) ~ (10^39)(10-29) ~ 10^10 ergs ~ 1 kilojoule.

Now what virtual photon modes are allowed outside the spherical shell, and what modes inside the shell are allowed according to you?

The radial outward electrostatic force F is therefore

10^10 ergs/10^-5 cm ~ 10^15 dynes

Your EXTRAORDINARY claim is that dP(virtual photon) cancels this radial outward force of ONE THOUSAND TRILLION DYNES!

If the only virtual photon modes allowed inside the N-electron shell have wavelengths less than a = 10^-5 cm, then the additional modes outside the shell giving the excess pressure dP(virtual photon) integrate out to energy density

~ hc/a^4 ~ (10-6)^4hc(h/mc)^-4 ~ (10^-24)(10^27) ergs/cc ~ 10^3 ergs per cc.

Because the inside of the N-electron shell has all the virtual photon ZPF modes the outside has except for the INFRARED long wave ones than cannot fit inside the shell. This is very small Hal. Where does your cutoff at h/mc even enter into the dP = P(Outside) - P(Inside) > 0 computation? Please explain this mystery.

Suppose we make your false assumption that w = +1/3 so that

dP ~ 10^3 ergs per cc directed radially inward from the extra OUTSIDE INFRARED LONG WAVE modes.

The inward virtual photon radial force is then ~ 10^3(10^-11)^2 ~ 10^-18 dynes that opposes the electrostatic outward radial force of 10^15 dynes. Therefore, Hal your prediction is TOO WEAK BY 33 POWERS OF TEN!

As I said, the Casimir force is irrelevant to this problem!

OK, if I have done the numbers above WRONG, show us all how to do it right according to your idea!

Hal: "This is not cosmology, Jack.  This is not general relativity.  This is quantum physics."

Jack: You are being polemical and hand-waving with transparent sophistry not addressing yourself to the real problem here. You have confused the limits of the large scale FRW metric with the Einstein field equations themselves that hold at all scales - down to at least 10^-33 cm unless G gets large at small scales.

Hal: "The math is there.  The references are there.  Until you're up to speed on the  relevant quantum  calculations there is nothing more I can help you with with regard to understanding my posting at  http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408114"

Jack: Tell that to Cliff Will, Matt Visser and Bill Unruh! ;-)
Memorandum for the Record

Subject: QED is incomplete (does not permit gravity), unstable and inadequate for EVO Charge Clusters and for Metric Engineering

First of all there is this weird lock on only Hal's e-mail. I am not able to directly reply to any of Hal's messages. I must copy and then paste them into a reply to someone else. This only happens with Hal's messages and no one else's. Very weird.

In a message dated 8/29/2004 5:20:33 PM Central Daylight Time, sarfatti@pacbell.net writes:

Abstract

Hal implicitly uses w = + 1/3 in his latest wrong paper on Ken
Shoulders charge clusters.
See his p.3 with his "1/3" in his

(1/3)uzpf(virtual photon) = ue-(electron Coulomb)

This is Hal's "greatest blunder". Hal has confused REAL PHOTONS, which
do have w = 1/3 with POSITIVE radiation pressure with VIRTUAL ZPF
photons that have w = -1 with NEGATIVE PRESSURE!

Hal replies: "Wrong again, Jack.  You are misapplying cosmological aspects of the ZPF vacuum to a boundary condition Casimir problem."

Jack: Wrong! You are making an error of logic and physics here. GCT applies on all scales! Furthermore, your logic in your Type II model is illogical. I consulted with the Vulcans and they confirm that! ;-

Hal continues: "Real" or "virtual photons" is not the issue here.

Jack: Jack: Wrong! You are making another error of logic and physics here. Zero point energy is a property of virtual photons that are off-mass-shell, in this case, they are not lying on the smooth c-number light cones. This distinction like GCT and EEP above must be obeyed. You disobey them and that leads to your wrong Type II model.

Hal: "You need to understand the Casimir effect literature.  You may have some traction with the cosmological literature, but are woefully untutored with regard to the vacuum Casimir Effect literature."

Jack: I have read it. Ian Peterson, an expert at University of Coventry in UK, has argued that they way you use it does not work the way you wish it to. Be that as it may, you should debate that with Ian directly. It is quite obvious that the QED Casimir effect is always a tiny effect compared to the repulsive electrostatic self-energy barrier. The latter scales as N^2, the former scales as N as is obvious from the parallel plate geometry and topology. True, the sign of the effective Casimir energy, i.e. whether its negative gradient gives attraction or repulsion is sensitive to geometry and topology. Remember, I am claiming essentially the Type I Casimir model not your Type II. I am claiming that Type I works beautifully when you add the missing physical effect from Einstein's GCT, EEP, Heisenberg uncertainty, and macro-quantum "ODLRO" vacuum coherence. At a future time I will refute your assumptions for Type II in more detail. I claim there is no way in principle that you can use the Casimir effect to stabilize Ken Shoulders charge clusters. You certainly cannot use it to explain the old classical electron problem, which you seem to admit in your latest paper. I CAN SOLVE THAT PROBLEM! And have.

w = -1 for ALL virtual quanta, not only virtual photons is a general law of nature not limited only to the large-scale symmetries of isotropy and homogeneity of the Einstein gravity standard FRW cosmological model.

In addition Bose-Einstein quantum statistics demands that the virtual photon ZPF energy density is POSITIVE. Therefore, the virtual photon ZPF pressure is negative (of equal magnitude). Casimir effect cannot violate that law of physics as you are doing - your greatest blunder.

Hal: "The type of calculation I use is what generates Casimir attraction.  (If you're not careful, Jack, you would predict that the negative pressure of virtual photons would push Casimir plates apart, not attract them together, counter to both theory and experiment!)"

Jack: Nonsense. I already answered you on that. The Casimir calculation works as is in the limit /\zpf = 0 both between and outside the plates. It will not work when there are exotic dark energy/matter vacua. QED is only a globally flat special relativity quantum theory. Its results are superceded by general relativity! That's the deep idea here you are not taking account of.

Hal: You need to read Milonni, P.W., Cook, R.J., and Goggin, M.E. (1988) "Radiation pressure from the vacuum: Physical interpretation of the Casimir force", Phys. Rev. A, Vol. 38, No. 3, pp. 1621-1623.

Jack: Even if those calculations are correct, they are irrelevant to the present problem of Ken Shoulders charge clusters because they assume, implicitly, /\zpf = 0. Those guys had no idea that there even was a /\zpf! This is new physics from 2002 based on the unexpected discovery of dark energy in 1999 from Type 1a supernovae data! There is nothing sacred about QED Casimir models that ignore this new physics!

Hal: "There you will see that the form of my radiation pressure calculation for the problem at hand (modeling of the charge cluster phenomenon at http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408114  ) is correct and of the type that leads to agreement between theory and experiment.

Jack: First of all, what you say here using "radiation" is sloppy. You use the term "radiation pressure". There is no such thing as "radiation pressure" in the Casimir effect. "Radiation" means "real photons" on mass shell with w = +1/3. You cannot use "radiation" while talking about "virtual photons" because virtual photons do not transport energy to infinity and cannot make detectors "click".

The virtual photon quantum zero point pressure = - virtual photon quantum zero point energy density ALWAYS!

Any calculations that say otherwise are simply wrong.

Hal: "The Casimir plate collapse due to reduced ZPF radiation pressure (yes, of virtul photons!) between the plate boundaries as compared with that outside is precisely applied in my case.  My case is simply one where the reduction inside the boundary is the extreme case of reduced interior pressure defined by Casimir in his Type II model."

Jack: I think the Type II model, at least as you too vaguely describe it in your latest paper, is illogical. Please spell out in complete detail what the physical picture is here. What assumptions are you making? You are definitely assuming POSITIVE VIRTUAL PHOTON PRESSURE. This is already wrong. There is no way you can ever have a positive virtual photon quantum pressure unless the virtual photon energy density is negative. The latter is not possible because it violates boson quantum statistics. The energy scale is absolute in general relativity.
QED is a wrong theory in these mesoscopic application EXCEPT when /\zpf = 0, which throws the baby out with the bath water. The QED vacuum is unstable and it cannot accommodate gravity as a matter of principle. EVOs only exist because of the breakdown of the QED vacuum to form dark energy and dark matter. Therefore, showing me a QED calculation, that only works when /\zpf = 0, is as valid as your PV theory! It is not valid at all! ;-)

Hal: Your (incorrect) commentary with regard to my calculation is a misapplication to the boundary-condition Casimir-type effects under consideration here.  Based on your misapplication of the w = -1 principle to the Milonni, Puthoff et al. type of Casimir pressure imbalance problem, as I said above, you could very well end up predicting parallel Casimir plate repulsion instead of attraction due to negative virtual photon vacuum pressure!

Jack: Milonni's calculation, if he uses w = +1/3 at least implicitly is simply wrong. There is no general relativity in Milonni's text book. It is not complete and does not apply to these qualitatively new /\zpf =/= 0 exotic vacuum physics. Metric engineering is all about exotic vacua. This is why none of your current vague ideas about metric engineering based only on the incomplete unstable QED Casimir force will survive.

Hal: So what we're dealing with here is a blunder on Jack's, not Hal's, part.

Jack: Others will decide that. At least you admit you are not using w = -1. I say this is your greatest blunder. You are using w = +1/3. If Milonni et-al also do that then they are blundering also! Physics is not ruled by the tyranny of a majority vote.

Hal: I've done my best to spell it out in detail.

Jack: Not good enough. Spell out in detail the assumptions of your Type II model. You seem to say that a positive pressure of virtual photons on the outside, i.e. P(Out) is greater than a positive pressure P(In) on the inside of the spherical shell of radius a of N electrons? Is this correct? Of course that demands w = +1/3. Your argument, correct me if I am wrong here, is then

[P(Out) - P(In)](Surface Area of N Poly-Electron Shell) ~ (Ne)^2/a^2 ?

Is this essentially your physical picture? Yes? No?

You seem to assume that the POSITIVE virtual photon pressure P in each region (inside & outside closed boundary of N electrons each of effective area ~ (h/mc)^2 which I also have in my GR model, but with NEGATIVE PRESSURE) obeys

P = (1/3)(Positive Virtual Photon Energy Density)

Yes? No?

Of course I claim this is wrong.

Hal: "If it's still not clear, I recommend you reread Milonni et al.'s paper, then Casimir's paper that is in my references of my arxiv posting, then reread mine."

Jack: No for reasons given above, to wit:

1. Assumption w = + 1/3 is serious error.

2. Implicit assumption /\zpf = 0 is a limiting case not obeyed by the actual phenomenon in question.

Text book QED is strictly a /\zpf = 0 LIMITING CASE!

Hal: "Until you've done that, there is no use discussing this matter any further.  (And yes, I have read Peacock many times, understand it well, know all about w =-1, etc., etc., so let's not waste any time on that irrelevant Red Herring either.  Now it's your turn,  you need to read the Casimir calculation literature.)"

Jack: No, Hal you are missing my fundamental thesis here that standard text book QED is no good in this new realm of physics. Ken Shoulders laboratory EVOS like the cosmic dark energy and dark matter is a qualitatively new realm of physics requiring a really radical new idea, which I am showing you. Digging up old physics beyond its proper domain of validity begs the question! So far we are not on the same page here.

Answer this Hal, how to you explain the net energy production Ken Shoulders is claiming or implying in e.g. "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" using ONLY the Casimir force? This seems to fly in the fact of Ian Peterson's papers on the subject?

On Aug 29, 2004, at 3:20 PM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:

Abstract

Hal implicitly uses w = + 1/3 in his latest wrong paper on Ken Shoulders charge clusters.
See his p.3 with his "1/3" in his

(1/3)uzpf(virtual photon) = ue-(electron Coulomb)

This is Hal's "greatest blunder". Hal has confused REAL PHOTONS, which do have w = 1/3 with POSITIVE radiation pressure with VIRTUAL ZPF photons that have w = -1 with NEGATIVE PRESSURE! Ask Mike Turner at U of Chicago or any other physicist like Saul Perlmutter at UC Berkeley working in precision cosmology on the dark energy problem. The proof is on pp 25-26 of John Peacock's "Cosmological Physics" Cambridge 1999 p. 26 eq (1.88).

On Aug 29, 2004, at 6:46 AM, ItalianPhysicsCenter@yahoogroups.com wrote:

There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Errors (sic!) in Puthoff's Casimir Force Explanation of Shoulders' Charge
From: puthoff@aol.com

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:30:01 EDT
From: puthoff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Errors (sic!) in Puthoff's Casimir Force Explanation of Shoulders' Charge

In a message dated 8/27/2004 8:22:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
sarfatti@pacbell.net writes:

Jack: Hal does not understand his own equations. Look at that equation Hal
points to, it depends on the 4th power of the cutoff frequency, but
that cutoff frequency is obviously ~ c/a where a is the dynamical
equilibrium value of the radius of the poly-electron charge cluster
mini-bomb. Therefore, my general power law analysis holds since the
cut-off is itself a dynamical variable and is not fixed.

Hal: "Sorry, Jack, wrong again. Read the sentence that follows that equation.
The cutoff frequency is NOT a dynamical variable, it is fixed; specifically, it
is hardwired to the electron's Compton frequency h-bar X omega_cutoff = m_e
c^2 (just like it says!)."

Jack: This is not a correct step is what I am saying here. I know you did it. I say you should not have done it.
I will explain this in more detail later.

Hal: That equation you refer to simply yields, when
solved, the poly-electron charge cluster radius a at which the ZPF radiation
and coulomb pressures balance (and the ZPF vacuum energy now excluded from the
interior of the spherical charge distribution has been transferred to the
coulomb field).

Jack: When you do that correctly you will not get EVO N poly-electron charge cluster stability. My claim is you are modeling this incorrectly and have thrown the baby out with the bath water leaving out the essential phenomenon. The Casimir force is a secondary generally small effect that for the actual problem is repulsive not attractive as you assume.

The ZPF VIRTUAL PHOTON pressure, UNLIKE REAL PHOTON RADIATION PRESSURE that you confuse it with, must be NEGATIVE! You cannot use Einstein's gravity on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays and ignore it the rest of the days of the week as you are, in effect, doing here.

The virtual photon ZPF pressure is equal and opposite to the virtual photon ZPF energy density!

w = -1 ALWAYS.

The only thing we seem to agree on here, which seems to fit Ken Shoulders measurements is

r* ~ N^1/2(h/mc)

I get it from a simple geometric close-packing Ansatz, you claim to derive it from Casimir force.

Pressure is

P = -dU/dV > 0

U = total internal energy

V = total enclosed volume e.g. piston in a cylinder

If pressure is positive (normal situation for real stuff) U decreases as V increases.

For real photons in fact w = +1/3, therefore, indeed, U decreases as V increases. This is what we see in the cosmic black body (BB) radiation U(cosmic BB) of absolute temperature TBB where V is the effective volume of the expanding universe i.e.

V(t) ~ Lp^3R(t)^3

Lp^2 = hG/c^3

t = h/kTBB

R(t) is the FRW dimensionless large-scale factor for the expansion of 3D space.

On the other hand if pressure is negative (i.e. what actually happens for the virtual photons inside the enclosed volume)

Then U(virtual ZPF photons) increases as V increases! "Springiness of vacuum" or, equivalently, U decreases as V decreases. Think of stretching a rubber band.

BTW look at the ZPF virtual photon energy density per polarization mode per unit frequency in interval df

du(virtual photon) ~ (1/2c^3)hf f^2df

Let the EVO thin spherical shell of e- be of radius a and IGNORE VACUUM COHERENCE as Hal in fact does ignore.

The integral for the energy density outside the closed shell is between the limits fmax = c/a and fmin = c/LpR(t) (although this on mass shell condition is not really justified) where fmax(outside) >> fmin(outside)

i.e. ~ (1/8c^3)hf^4 ~ (1/8c^3)h(c/a)^4 = u(virtual photon outside) > 0

The integral inside the closed shell is from fmin(inside) = fmax(outside) and fmax(inside).

You assume without any real justification that

fmax(inside) = c/(h/mc) ~ 10^21 Hz >> fmin(inside) ~ 10^10/10^-5 ~ 10^15 Hz

OK so then the integral is ~ (1/8c^3)h(c/(h/mc)^4) = u(virtual photon inside) >> u(virtual photon outside)

*Now Hal how in heaven's name do you get a huge positive virtual photon energy density inside the electron shell to glue together the repulsion between the N electrons making up the shell? Especially since you say that the virtual photon quantum ZPF pressure is positive! That is completely illogical!

Consider a cylinder of volume V with a movable circular plate dividing V into V1 and V2 and suppose the pressure of the stuff inside on both sides is negative.

Imagine initially V1 << V2

with P1 << P2 < 0

Try to increase V1 that automatically decreases V2 since V = V1 + V2.

You need to do positive work dW1 to do this. You only get back negative work dW2 where

dW1 - |dW2| > 0

This is qualitatively different from the "common sense" case where P1 >> P2 > 0!

Therefore, since the ZPF virtual photon pressure is in fact the NEGATIVE of the ZPF energy density, and since the negative ZPF virtual photon pressure is much more negative than it is on the outside, you need to do more work to expand the volume V(inside) of the shell from the inside than you gain from the decrease of V(outside). Your published argument where you explicitly say POSITIVE VIRTUAL PHOTON ZPF PRESSURE on this Hal is completely nonsensical logically.

Again Hal you used w = +1/3 for virtual ZPF photons, which is incorrect. You need to use w = -1 where

w = pressure/(energy density).

Consequently the total repulsive electron Coulomb self-energy density is

u(N electron shell) ~ N^2(e^2/a^4) > 0

but w = 0 for these on-mass shell electrons. They have zero pressure! Your argument Hal completely falls apart if you want to talk about balancing pressures! You need to use my equation for the total conservative potential energy per unit electron mass

V(r) = (@1)(Ne)^2/mr + (@2)N(h/mcr)^2(hc/mr) + (@3)(NJ)^2/2m^2r^2 + c^2/\zpfr^2

J = total angular momentum per electron

With

dV/dr = 0

at equilibrium and

d^2V/dr^2 > 0 for stability

violating the last equation creates a cold fusion explosion from the pent-up anti-gravity repulsive dark zero point energy!

Hal: I can see that attention to detail is not your forte! :-)

(Unfortunately, your yahoo groups in the cc list above won't get this.)

Collegially,
Hal

Jack: They will now!

## Sunday, August 29, 2004

On Aug 28, 2004, at 4:48 PM, Ken Shoulders wrote:

Jack

Does this formula fit your data?

h/mc ~ 10^-11 cm

N = 1012 gives charge cluster radius ~ 10^-5 cm. Is this in the ball park? For a more exact formula see below. This is only very crude.

The upper limit I work with is 2 x 10^-5 cm. This is a very repeatable and easily measured value as seen by bore holes. The lower measured limit is 1 x 10^-6 cm as shown by bore hole measurements

OK so that is the right ball park good.

but it is very likely that this value actually extends downward to 2 electrons otherwise the accretion method of PE formation would not work.

I don't see how to do it with only 2 electrons unless some kind of "Dirac string" of exotic vacuum connecting the two electrons - seems too Rube Goldberg. Basically my picture is of a self-assembled spherical shell or maybe a kind of Buckyball of N close-packed electrons each of effective surface area ~ (h/mc)^2. This forms a closed cavity - with some leakage perhaps, but the leakage rate decreases as N increases. Obviously there will be a cavity boundary condition Casimir effect but I am pretty sure it is usually negligible in comparison with my strong gravity effect from Einstein's general relativity. I do not have time yet to show why Puthoff's Type II model is wrong on several counts, but will do so in next few weeks in detail. Hal's statement that the virtual photon zero point pressure is positive is completely wrong as every top physicist in the field will tell you like Mike Turner for example. Indeed Milonni in "The Quantum Vacuum" shows that the virtual photon ZPF energy density is POSITIVE, therefore, pp. 25-26 of John Peacock's "Cosmological Physics" shows that the virtual photon ZPF pressure is NEGATIVE, i.e. w = -1. Hal & Co obviously have no understanding of this theorem from Einstein's general relativity. It is demanded by the equivalence principle, and general coordinate transformationm covariance (GCT) and radiation field commutation relations (Heisenberg uncertainty). No wonder Hal does not understand that as he rejects Einstein's theory. This is why the people I spoke to at GR 17 reject Hal's PV theory and his ZPF ideas (Cliff Will, Matt Visser, Bill Unruh and Professor X who does not want to be identified here).

Hal's Type II model is Rube Goldberg. He takes a short-wavelength cutoff at h/mc which is adhoc. You need the long wave cutoff inside the self-assembled N-electron shell ~ r ~ N^1/2(h/mc). This is not a rigorous refutation of Hal's Type II approach. I will provide that in coming weeks. Too busy right now.

I am sticking to Type I Casimir which works perfectly when the Einstein correction is added. In Type I for a closed boundary Casimir force is REPULSIVE not ATTRACTIVE, which I assume below. BTW including ROTATION of the N-Poly-Electron EVO, the total conservative potential energy per unit electron test mass (dimensions of velocity^2) is

V(Total) = V(Repulsive Electric Self Energy) + V(Casimir) + V(Rotation) + V(Einstein's Gravity)

Let(@i) be dimensionless coefficients, i = 1,2,3

V(Repulsive Electric Self Energy) = (@1)N^2(e^2/mr)

V(Casimir)= (@2)N(h/mcr)^2(hc/mr)

V(Rotation)= (@3)(NJ)^2/2m^2r^2

J = L + S = Orbital + Spin = Total angular momentum per electron

V(Einstein's Gravity)= c^2/\zpfr^2

Note this is a 3D harmonic oscillator potential with natural internal symmetry group SU(3).

The model is that of a uniform exotic vacuum core field /\zpf > 0, i.e. this is an anti-gravity "dark energy" universally repulsive field that explains WHY the COLD FUSION excess energy production when the EVO stability is disrupted! Hal has nothing like this in his Rube Goldberg adhoc "Type II" model that has no real physical justification. Hal has an incomplete, therefore wrong, qualitative physical picture in his stream of consciousness.

The multiple critical points for dynamical equilibrium are the roots of the polynomial

dV(Total)/dr = 0

The METASTABILITY condition that the critical points be genuine MINIMA as in elementary differential calculus is

d^2V(Total)/dr^2 > 0

When the control parameters make this second derivative pass through zero to negative values, the bottled up dark energy of the exotic vacuum core is released causing OVER-UNITY net energy production!

*We need to add non-conservative velocity-dependent forces as well if there is an external EM Fuv field.

If done too fast with a large enough EVO this would be a powerful bomb - more powerful than thermonuclear. Indeed something like this may happen on the astrophysical scale with gamma ray bursters?

Done in a controlled way gives the flying saucer weightless warp drive, i.e. George Trimble's "G-Engine" creating Paul Hill's "acceleration field". See Nick Cook's "The Hunt for Zero Point" and Paul Hill's "Unconventional Flying Objects."

The structures at the small end of the size range are likely very complicated arrays as most of them appear that way when caught in flight on high resolution witness plates. I really have to get to a trapping type of measurement technique so they can be localized in space for more detailed analysis.

Thanks

Ken

Debate between Hal Puthoff and Jack Sarfatti

In a message dated 8/27/2004 8:44:19 PM Central Daylight Time, sarfatti@pacbell.net writes:

Jack: Also, what Hal does not understand is that this
pressure is NEGATIVE if the ZPF energy density is positive. Hal does
not understand w = -1 from general relativity + Heisenberg's
uncertainty principle.

Hal: "No.In this circumstance you are wrong.  The pressure is positive. If you read Milonni et al's paper:

Milonni, P.W., Cook, R.J., and Goggin, M.E. (1988) "Radiation pressure from the vacuum: Physical interpretation of the Casimir force", Phys. Rev. A, Vol. 38, No. 3, pp. 1621-1623,

you will see that the form of my radiation pressure calculation for the problem at hand (modeling of the charge cluster phenomenon at http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408114  ) is correct and of the type that leads to agreement between theory and experiment.  The Casimir plate collapse due to reduced ZPF radiation pressure between the plate boundaries as compared with that outside is precisely applied in my case, where the reduction inside the boundary is the extreme case of reduced interior pressure defined by Casimir in his Type II model."

Jack: Milonni ignores GR completely in his book.

Hal: "Your (incorrect) commentary with regard to my calculation is a misapplication to the boundary-condition Casimir-type effects under consideration here.  Based on your misapplication of the w = -1 principle to the Milonni, Puthoff et al. type of Casimir pressure imbalance problem, you might very well end up predicting parallel Casimir plate repulsion instead of attraction!"

Jack: No, in fact just the opposite. You have ignored completely the macro-quantum vacuum coherence effect. Milonni's model is correct when /\zpf = 0! That is, Milonni's model assumes apriori a NON-EXOTIC VACUUM at the requisite scale. For OPEN PLATES this is plausible. It appears that the EXOTIC VACUA i.e. /\zpf =/=0 only form inside a closed cavity with small leakage, i.e. "weak links" to the NON-EXOTIC VACUUM outside the closed cavity without boundary edge effects like in the flat finite plates example.

w = -1 is an absolute principle. It can never be ignored. But it's effective size depends on the intensity of vacuum coherence at the scale of the device. Basically Hal I have an additional control parameter missing from your model.

There are more things in Super Cosmos Hal than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

This problem is not only weirder than you have imagined Hal, it is weirder than you, presently, have allowed yourself to imagine! ;-)

Hal: "So what we're dealing with here is something that Jack, not Hal, doesn't understand.  I've done my best to spell it out in detail.  If it's still not clear, I recommend you reread Milonni et al.'s paper, Casimir's paper that is in my references of my arxiv posting, then reread mine. Please pass this on to whomever you posted your initial statement to, as it is most relevant.

Collegially,

Hal"

Jack: I am doing so. I will get back on details of your paper especially the Type II approach and the references. You have yet to understand that you have missed entirely the new /\zpf control parameter from

1. w = -1 of mainstream theory i.e. GCT that your PV is not compatible with says Ibison.

2. Vacuum coherence as a local field out of which Einstein's gravity with exotic vacua ALL EMERGE in the smooth c-number MACRO-QUANTUM limit. There is no such thing as "classical space-time" that is a fundamental mis-conception. What we have is SMOOTH c-number curved space-time from the Bose-Einstein condensation of virtual electron-positron pairs in the globally flat unstable pre-inflationary "False Vacuum".

## Saturday, August 28, 2004

bcc

See Hal Puthoff's remarks at bottom:

I don't think it works well for 2 electrons. You need, in simplest model, N >> 1 electrons close-packed to form a sphere of area N(h/mc)^2 of radius r* ~ N^1/2(h/mc). Both Hal and I seem to agree on that point but for very different reasons.

Does this formula fit your data?

h/mc ~ 10^-11 cm

N = 10^12 gives charge cluster radius ~ 10^-5 cm. Is this in the ball park? For a more exact formula see below. This is only very crude.

I deduce a dark energy ZPF density ~ /\zpf that would bind the shell of electrons that way.

I have not read Hal's paper carefully enough yet to really see how he gets it. I will eventually.

The KEY IDEA is as follows:

1. The repulsive electro-static self energy per unit electron mass for the N poly-electron cluster is

V(Coulomb Self-Energy) ~ N^2e^2/mr > 0

where the N electrons are arranged in a mono-layer thin spherical shell of thickness h/mc ~ 10^-11 cm

i.e. Euclidean area of the shell is

A = 4pir^2 = N(h/mc)^2

r ~ N^1/2(h/mc) = Schwarzschild radial coordinate if large space warp from G* ~ 10^40G at short-range.

That is, N on-mass-shell bare electrons each of radius e^2/mc^2 ~ 10^-13 cm in a soup of virtual plasma of virtual photons and virtual electron-positron pairs - the latter partially condensed as a vacuum condensate!

OK Hal Puthoff sticks in a Casimir force. I don't really care what it's exact formula is. It plays a minor secondary role.

The Casimir potential energy per unit electron mass will be of the form

V(Casimir) ~ C(hc/mr)N(h/mcr)^2

Where C is a dimensionless coefficient that can be positive or negative, but is positive for our Casimir Type 1 shell model.

Note that V(Casimir) scales only as N because it depends on the surface area of the N poly-electron thin shell. This is a boundary effect!

Ignoring rotational and vibrational modes - to be added later. All we have next is the GR correction term that Hal leaves out completely.

This is

V(Dark Energy) = c^2/\zpfr^2 a 3D Harmonic Oscillator Potential like a ball in a tunnel through center of Earth

Note that /\zpf > 0 i.e. an anti-gravity repulsive "dark energy" exotic vacuum core that COUNTER-INTUITIVELY BINDS the N electrons into a metastable BOUNDARY WALL THIN POLY-ELECTRON SHELL making the QED Casimir force in the first place that Hal sticks in ad-hoc!

Adding all three potential energies Coulomb, Casimir & General Relativity with PW Anderson's "More is Different"

V(total) = BN^2(e^2/mr) + CN(hc/mr)(h/mcr)^2 + c^2/\zpfr^2

B is also a dimensionless coefficient

The critical point for dynamical equilibrium is

dV(total)/dr = 0

i.e. the total acceleration must vanish in metastable equilibrium where r --> r*

-BN^2(e^2/mr*^2) - 3CN(hc/mr*^2)(h/mcr*)^2 + 2c^2/\zpfr* = 0

So I do not care about Casimir force, which when N >> 1 is obviously a small perturbation!

We now have a more accurate formula for r*, or rather, if you want to keep

r* = N^1/2(h/mc) then you can compute /\zpf.

We also have the stability constraint:

d^V(total)/dr^2 > 0

When this constraint is violated WE HAVE WHAT IS BEGINNING TO SUGGEST A BOMB!

A COLD FUSION BOMB RELEASING DARK ENERGY!

Or better maybe a COLD FUSION REACTOR?

Hal Puthoff wrote:

In a message dated 8/27/2004 8:44:19 PM Central Daylight Time, sarfatti@pacbell.net writes:

Hal's rebuttal

"The inward ZPF radiation pressure is given by the left-hand-side of
the third equation in this section, and is not a function of r."

(Jack) is false because his cutoff frequency is itself c/r where r is the
radius of the thin shell of the N-polyelectron charge cluster in
dynamical equilibrium.

Hal wrote:
"Wrong again.  The cutoff frequency is hard-wired fixed at the electron's compton frequency (read the sentence following the fourth equation), and therefore is not a function of r; the c/r relationship to the cutoff frequency in the fourth equation that led to your false statement is a consequence, not a determiner, of  pressure balances, and thus simply provides the shell value radius r = a.

(Please forward this to the bcc list that you sent your incorrect statement to, concerning my rebuttal).

Hal"

I say Hal is wrong here. I am still using Casimir Type I model that Hal is not able to get to work. Hal is using Type II model in his remark above, which is physically inconsistent. You cannot take the cutoff at the Compton wavelength. That is a self-contradiction. Hal's Type II model is no good at all. I will argue this in detail another time. I am using Type I which works perfectly once one puts in Einstein's gravity correction MISSING FROM HAL'S MODEL!

PS You can see the basic inconsistency in Hal's Type II. The Casimir pressure is from missing modes induced by the boundaries of scale L, therefore the cut-off frequency must be at c/L. That is, the cut-off is a macro-boundary effect not a micro-quantum effect. But in any case, in the real physics you can ignore the Casimir pressure to first order when N >> 1!

On Aug 28, 2004, at 2:06 PM, Ken Shoulders wrote:

Jack

If you get time, please look at the following word picture and see if you can put some numbers to it. The aim of this exercise is to see if a form of energy gain results from this simple loop of operations.

Word Picture

There is a loop of action that arbitrarily starts with electron emission from a cathode using field emission or tunneling.

It is assumed for this example that only two electrons are emitted using an applied field of about 3 x 107 volts per centimeter. As often seen in tunneling electron microscopy, a single atom site can supply this emission. This can be achieved practically by applying nearly any voltage, depending on the spacing between cathode to anode, down to about 1 volt. Obviously, the lower the voltage, the lower the applied energy.

Furthermore, it is assumed that the two electrons obey the electron binding rule seen experimentally and are bound together with a spacing of about 1 atomic diameter, in direct violation of simply applied Coulomb repulsion laws.

Upon applying some presently unknown level of excitation, the pair of electrons exceeds the trapping energy level and fly apart with the force specified by Coulomb force yielding a potentially available energy output.

The electrons rejoin the normal current flow path in the anode to complete the energy loop and are returned to the cathode through the power supply to be emitted again at a later time.

The question is: What is the numerical energy level at each step in the process.

It is assumed that the energy threshold required for dishevelment of the electron pair is about the same as it would be for a large group of electrons bound together by the same process. However, the total energy required per pair of electrons would be less for the large group due to a cascading action from a single input trigger point at threshold energy level. This runaway breakdown process itself would be sufficient evidence to show energy gain of the sort described in chemical reactions but this may or may not be the type desired in this calculation.

## Friday, August 27, 2004

On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:35 PM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:

On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:09 PM, Tony Smith wrote:

Jack, with respect to confinement of electrons in a cluster,
have you considered the possible relevance of
Bohm's Hidden Variable Paper II, section 5,
(reprinted at page 387 of Quantum Theory and Measurement,
edited by Wheeler and Zurek (Princeton 1983))

Yes, this was the first thing I thought of at ISSO in 1999 when Ken Shoulders came to talk about his charge cluster experiments.

But in this case, the quantum potential of N electrons? Remember N is typically 10^11. This is VERY NONLOCAL, which is NOT GOOD!

My whole theory is based upon the LOCAL GIANT Bohm MACRO-QUANTUM potential of the vacuum condensate of virtual pairs that causes both Einstein's gravity of 1915 to EMERGE (Sakharov) along with the EXOTIC VACUA that is 96% of the universe and that the Pundits do not understand as well as I do at this point in time.

in which Bohm says:

"... the PSI-field is able to bring the particle to rest
and to transform the entire kinetic energy into potential energy
of interaction with the PSI-field. ...".

Bohm discusses specifically the situation of
"... a "free" particle contained between two impenetrable and
perfectly reflecting walls, separated by a distance L. ...",
but
perhaps a similar analysis might apply to a spherical cluster.

There is no "perhaps" about it. I have a pretty good model that solves the problem and explains why Ken is also seeing energy production.

Bohm goes on to say:
"... at first sight, it may seem puzzling
that a particle having a high energy should be at rest
in the empty space between two walls.
Let us recall, however, that the space is not really empty,
but
contains an objectively real PSI-field that can act on the particle. ...".

The point here is that you must explain why the boundary forms! You cannot impose it by fiat. The boundary is the thin shell of charge itself of radius a ~ N^1/2(h/mc).

If N ~ 10^12 that gives a ~ 10^-5 cm.

Have you worked out how the Bohm PSI-field might be related
to your dark energy/matter model ?

Of course I have. But

"The Question is: What is The Question?" (Wheeler)

The Bohm Q-BIT PSI-field of WHAT?

The entangled N electrons? NO!

The vacuum out of which gravity emerges? YES!

The Bohm potential of N electrons is essentially repulsive, i.e. Pauli exclusion principle. In any case it is not a LOCAL FIELD and we need a LOCAL FIELD.

"Physics is simple when it is local." (Wheeler)

On Aug 27, 2004, at 3:53 PM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:

PS I should make it clear that this latest paper by Hal is a GOOD paper! It is very useful. Good references and it shows WHY Hal's approach here is wrong. It is wrong because it is incomplete not because it is fundamentally misconceived like Hal's PV theory and origin of inertia theory! It is missing a few IDEAS from a different part of physics that is not within Hal's current landscape of concepts i.e. not in his toolbox.

Hal's paper here is not like his PV paper. The two papers are totally independent. Also it is not like his paper with Bernie Haisch on "origin of inertia".
See partial list of errors in Hal's paper below. Who is the other author in Bay Area at Adelphi Technologies in San Carlos?

On Aug 27, 2004, at 11:45 AM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:

On Aug 27, 2004, at 10:45 AM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:

Quick comment

I seem to recall that the Casimir force can also go repulsive and indeed that is the case for a charge cluster shell with the topology of a sphere?

Here is an elementary quick and dirty back of the envelope calculation on why Hal Puthoff's latest paper H. E. Puthoff and M. A. Piestrup,

"Charge confinement by Casimir forces," http://arXiv.org/abs/physics/0408114

is probably wrong.

The repulsive Coulomb barrier potential self-energy per unit electron mass on a spherical shell of N electrons at radius r is of the form

V(Coulomb) ~ N^2e^2/mr

Notice that this is an inverse power law and it must be positive. Therefore if you plot V(Coulomb) vs r* you have a monotonic decreasing function. What basically kills Hal's argument is that the Casimir force is also an inverse power law! For example look at Hal's first equation for the Casimir pressure

F/A ~ hc/r^4

Puthoff's Error #1

F(Casimir) ~ hcA/r^4

V(Casimir) ~ hc/mr

Since A ~ r^2 in the spherical shell model.

Therefore, in general, without my general relativity correction term, the total potential energy per unit electron mass is, with N-scaling made explicit

V(Coulomb) + V(Casimir) = C1N^2e^2/mr + C2Nhc/mr

Where C1 and C2 are dimensionless coefficients.

Note that hc ~ 137 e^2

Note that the Casimir term must scale as N not N^2 because the area A scales as N.

Therefore when N ~ 10^11 - a typical case, there is no way that the QED Casimir force can balance the Coulomb repulsive self force for poly-electron clusters even if the Casimir force is attractive, which it generally isn't!

V(Coulomb) + V(Casimir) = (hc/mrN)[NC1 + C2]

Where NC1 >> C2 for N large enough.

OK, consider a model with an attractive Casimir force (which may not always be the case since the actual sign of the QED Casimir force seems to be very sensitive to the topology and perhaps actual shape of the "boundary".

V(total) = V(Coulomb) - V(Casimir)

= |A(N)|/r - |B(N)|/r^n

n ~ 3 but, in fact, the precise value of n does not matter as long as n > 1.

First we need a critical point for the dynamical equilibrium of the charge cluster.

dV(total)/dr* = 0

i.e.

-|A|/r^2 + n|B|/r^(n+1) = 0

The critical point must be a stable minimum, therefore

d^2V(total)/dr^2 > 0

i.e.

+2|A|/r^3 -(n+1)n|B|/r^(n+2) > 0

Therefore,

+2|A|/r^3 > (n+1)n|B|/r^(n+2)

This cannot be automatically assumed in Hal's model. It needs to be computed with QED.

So we need to check whether these conditions can even be obeyed in Hal's model for a realistic number for r* at the equilibrium that can be checked against the actual data by Ken Shoulders.

In contrast my model is of the form

V(total) = V(Coulomb) + V(Casimir) + V(Exotic Vacuum Core)

= A(N)/r + B(N)/r^n + /\*r^2

The third term from Einstein's general relativity for the direct warping of spacetime from zero point energy is a power law with a positive exponent, i.e. 2 where /\* is a dynamical field that adjusts to make the dynamical equilibrium stable. Note if the charge cluster is rotating with orbital angular momentum L and if it is vibrating there will be additional terms. There will also be velocity dependent forces if there is an external magnetic field and the problem gets quite complicated.

The stability condition is

+2A/r^3 +(n+1)nB/r^(n+2) + /\* > 0

Note in my memo to Ken Shoulders written before Hal sent his latest I wrote Hal's conclusion

N(h/mc)^2 ~ r*^2 for close packing

from a simple geometry argument without any Casimir force. However, the actual dynamics is more complex. Without the Casimir force I got a cubic polynomial

N^2e^2/mc^2r*^2 - 2/\zpfr* = 0

I simply assumed the close packing relation

r* ~ N^1/2(h/mc)

that Hal "derives" in order to determine /\zpf a new QM/GR parameter absent completely in Hal's model.

On Aug 25, 2004, at 11:30 AM, Jack Sarfatti wrote to Ken Shoulders:

Memorandum for the Record on EVOs

"EVO" = Exotic Vacuum Object"

Ken Shoulder seems to be making them on the mesoscopic scale.

All lepto-quarks are also spatially-extended EVOs on the fermi scale 10^-13 cm in their rest frames, that shrink from spatial warping to ~ 10^-16 cm when probed with high-energy impact parameters, are Bohm hidden variables, i.e. Wheeler's "IT".

The Galactic Halo holding the stars together in our galaxy is a large EVO.

Flying saucers weightless warp drive is EVO advanced super technology.

That is, UFO "G-Engines" (George Trimble in Nick Cook's "The Hunt for Zero Point") making Paul Hill's "acceleration fields" are EVO engines.

On possibly "cold fusion" application of EVOs see p. 77 of August 2004 "Popular Mechanics".

On Aug 24, 2004, at 7:08 PM, Ken Shoulders wrote:

Jack
I have put some thoughts on the web and enclosed a copy for your inspection. Please let me know if I am way off or have said something already well known. In addition, see if you can find any of your dark stuff sticking to electrons that might cause the short range attraction without harming the long range repulsion so revered by all.

That's exactly what my equations show! :-)

I will get back to your write up in a few days. :-)

Briefly the argument goes like this:

The Coulomb electric repulsive self energy per electron for an N electron EVO charge cluster of radius r* is

~ N^2e^2/mr*

Imagine all N electrons distributed uniformly in a thin spherical shell, Think of each electron Bohm hidden variable as a sphere of radius ~ h/mc. Therefore, N spheres close packed have an area A ~ N(h/mc)^2. The Schwarzschild curvature radius r* is defined as

A = 4pir*^2

Therefore, ignoring rotation of the sphere and IGNORING the QED Casimir force (stick them in later), keeping only the zero point energy induced effective gravity from Einstein's exotic vacuum field equation

Guv + /\zpfguv = 0

in this crude toy model (BTW Hal Puthoff does not understand this last equation. You will never find it in any of his papers related to "metric engineering" yet it is the fundamental equation for metric engineering!) ignoring small rational fractions of pi for this back of the envelope estimate:

N(h/mc)^2 ~ r*^2 for close packing

For a uniform spherical core of exotic vacuum /\zpf holding the N electrons together in the spherical shell, the gravity self-energy per unit electron is simply

~ c^2/\zpfr*^2

Note that this is a 3D harmonic oscillator potential! It has a natural symmetry group SU(3) as I recall? Also like the quark potential the energy increases with separation!

Why is it a 3D harmonic oscillator potential? Simple, drill a hole through the center of the Earth and drop a ball. I am using Newton's law of gravity that the mass beyond the position of the ball does not influence its motion. With rotation there will be frame drag gravimagnetism of course that is missing in Hal's PV model.

For dynamical equilibrium you need to have the negative gradients of all the potential energies add up to zero. Worry about stability later.

Therefore the equilibrium is

N^2e^2/mc^2r*^2 - 2/\zpfr* = 0

or

N(e^2/mc^2)(mc/h)^2 = 2/\zpfN^1/2(h/mc)

/\zpf ~ N^1/2(e^2/mc^2)(mc/h)^2 ~ N^1/2(137)(mc/h)^2

Note that if N ~ 10^11

r* ~ 10^5 10^-11 ~ 10^-6 cm ~ 10 nanometers

on this model that ignores rotation and Casimir force as a first approximation.

Note that /\zpf scales only as the square root of the total number N of electrons in the charge cluster EVO ignoring rotation of the EVO about its center of mass and also ignoring the QED Casimir force.

Note that you need an anti-gravity repulsive core /\zpf of positive zero point energy density with negative quantum pressure to hold your EVO together because the electric repulsion energy is positive but decreases with increasing distance. The zero point energy induced strong gravity of the exotic vacuum core needs to be positive because it then increases with separation to make a minimum well of stability in the total potential energy! So that this is actually a "dark energy core" of the EVO! Just what the doctor ordered for cold fusion BTW! :-)

Note further that dark energy makes Hal Puthoff PV parameter K < 1 in his simplest SSS model. Not that I think Puthoff's PV model is any good of course, but at least it is testable and has that feature that Hal was looking for.

Appendix on Hal Puthoff's PV Model

On Aug 24, 2004, at 5:44 PM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:

PS Let me for the record explicitly address Hal's

Wrong again.  Proper control of K in the PV model IS control of vacuum coherence, just like ZPE mode suppression between Casimir plates IS control of interference patterns by boundary conditions.  You've never gotten this, have you?  (Others have.)  Wake up and smell the chai!

There Hal goes again dragging in the dead cat of the QED Casimir force, which has nothing to do with the direct gravity effect of zero point energy. Hal seems to equate

"ZPE mode suppression" with "vacuum coherence".

This is not what I mean by "vacuum coherence".

First of all, Hal is only thinking of random virtual photons trapped between two plates. I am thinking of a "More is different" local complex order parameter from a vacuum condensate of virtual electron-positron pairs.

How does Hal propose to get warp drives and wormholes from the tiny Casimir force between two plates?

The direct gravity effect of zero point energy has nothing at all to do with the Casimir force, nor do you need plates particularly. It has to do with the Einstein field equation for the exotic vacuum that is

Guv + /\zpfguv = 0

In any case I challenge Hal to make some simple mathematical models of what he means by

"just like ZPE mode suppression between Casimir plates IS control of interference patterns by boundary conditions"

And how that helps in the quest to metric engineer warp drives and traversable wormhole time travel star gates?

On Aug 24, 2004, at 5:30 PM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:

1.1 Do a comparative analysis of the CERN document

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/search.py?recid=789638&ln=en

and the NIDS documents

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/vallee_davis.pdf

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/vallee_davis_ppt.pdf

Point out strengths and weaknesses in each.

1.2 What is wrong and or right with Hal Puthoff's statement:

On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:38 PM, Puthoff@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/24/2004 4:44:47 PM Central Daylight Time, sarfatti@pacbell.net writes:
Metric engineering is the control of the phase of the vacuum coherence.
Puthoff, Davis, Haisch, Vallee and all the Boys at NIDS, NASA BPP,
MITRE, BAE et-al have not the slightest inkling of what this is.

Wrong again.  Proper control of K in the PV model IS control of vacuum coherence, just like ZPE mode suppression between Casimir plates IS control of interference patterns by boundary conditions.  You've never gotten this, have you?  (Others have.)  Wake up and smell the chai!

You can continue to say the above as often as you like, but, unlike Picard, it does not make it so!  :-)

Hal

What does Hal mean by "K"?

In his simplest charge neutral SSS model

K = e^2GM/c^2r

Where does the "vacuum coherence" appear in Hal's formula?

What is Hal Puthoff's definition of "vacuum coherence"?

Hint: He has yet to publish one.

Assuming Hal comes up with a definition of "vacuum coherence" precise enough to compare with his "K", are we talking about the same idea?

Where does the term "vacuum coherence" appear in any of Hal's papers? Ditto for the recent paper by Vallee and Davis.

Where does the term "dark energy"appear in any of Hal's papers? Ditto for the recent paper by Vallee and Davis.

Where and when does Hal discuss the relationships among "dark energy", "K" and "vacuum coherence"?

Where does Hal give a practical procedure, in principle as a gedankexperiment at least, for how to control K significantly and how to make K < 1?

Jack Sarfatti's solution to problem 1.2 for the historical record.

For the record. Here is my ORIGINAL formula for the above problem using Hal's PV model that is not found in any of his papers. For a uniform exotic vacuum distribution of positive zero point pressure, i.e. a uniform sphere of "dark matter" of radius r* like the Galactic Halo, assuming Hal's wrong PV model, then

GM is replaced by -c^2/\zpfr*^3 neglecting small rational factors of pi

In the conventions used exotic vacuum /\zpf < 0 gravitates as "dark matter" and /\zpf > 0 anti-gravitates as "dark energy".

Therefore, at least for r > r*

K = e^-2/\zpfr*^3/r

Note that K > 1 for /\zpf < 0, i.e. for gravitating "dark matter" attractive phase of exotic vacuum.

K < 1 for /\zpf > 0, i.e. for anti-gravitating "dark energy" repulsive phase of exotic vacuum.

Furthermore

/\zpf = (Quantum of Area)^-1[(Quantum of Volume)|Vacuum Coherence|^2 - 1]

Where "Vacuum Coherence" is a LOCAL complex scalar field that derives primarily from a virtual electron-positron pair condensate whose phase gives Einstein's metric field guv.

## Wednesday, August 25, 2004

On Aug 25, 2004, at 12:47 PM, Joel Isaacson wrote:

Yes, that's me alright. Ladder to the Stars
http://stardrive.org/cartoon/MagicBean.html

Ya'akov:

That cartoon starts with that bovine critter -- a clear reference to Taurus...

Then those two jars: one contains Taurus; and the other contains
that angelic flying critter (.... ) which is
a reference to Auriga... Can't help it: we are locked onto Auriga-Taurus!

Norman Quebedeau did that a few years ago!
Precognitive RV? i.e. sub-quantal non-equilibrium "signal nonlocality" in open macro-quantum systems.

Btw, in terms of additional Biblical references, the "Golden Calf" imagery
involves Aurum and Taurus, in the context of FORTY (40) years in
the wilderness among ROTEM trees and bushes.... and that bush that wouldn't
burn out -- is it a source of indefinite energy?

=j=

From: Jack Sarfatti
To: Dan Smith
Subject: Re: Eschatology 101: The Aviary Goes to Hebrew School!
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:24:29 -0700

On Aug 24, 2004, at 8:50 PM, Joel Isaacson wrote:

From: "Debby Newmark"
To: "Jack" ,"Joel Isaacson"
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:28:34 -0400

Hi guys,

Joel , it is nice to see you call Jack, Jacob; after all, this name starts
with a YUD and we know that Yaacob was changed to Israel which also starts
with a YUD. The YUD is the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet however,
has a great importance. It cannot be divided and alludes to Hashem who is
One. While his attributes seem to be numerous, they all flow from one
unified purpose.

With the letter Yud Hashem created the world to come or a different world
from the one we live in. It also represents the metaphysical according to
Maharal: " In the smallest lies essence which is devoid of such physical
ballast as space, time or matter."

So what do you say Jack, don't you deserve to be called Jacob? :)

One more thing concerning the birds, if you read OR Aleph-Vav- Reish
backwards with the Atbash for the VAV and the ALEPH--------
REISH-PEY-TAV ------ you get REFET:) so in addition to the birds you may
also find some cows. :)

Yes, I have noticed "REFET" before... Refet houses cows and (also) bulls...
so, again, we have reference to Taurus!

http://stardrive.org/cartoon/bovines.html

Btw, we also have "Re'am"
(RAM) by re-arranging the letters AMR in Line 01. RAM is very significant
in the near-sacrifice of Iztchak by his father, Abraham... also, RAM is sometimes
considered more generically as ROEBUCK, and even she-goat, CAPLELLA...
And, yes, CAPELLA is a major star in constellation Auriga... so much
packed in so litttle... =jdi=

PS Yaakov (aka Yisrael) dreamt of reaching the Heavens via that
him thru the long dark night, and earned the name of "Fighter with El" i.e., Yisrael,
or Israel... perhaps that's also about Jack ;-)

Yes, that's me alright. Ladder to the Stars
http://stardrive.org/cartoon/MagicBean.html

On Aug 25, 2004, at 10:14 AM, SarfattiScienceSeminars@yahoogroups.com wrote:

There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. C. F. von Weizsaecker’s Reconstruction of Physics and Burkhard Heim
From: "Berkant"
2. FW: The TORah-AURah Hypothesis
From: "Joel Isaacson"
3. The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli
From: "Berkant"
4. Re: FW: The TORah-AURah Hypothesis
From: "Berkant"
5. Re: The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli
From: "Berkant"
6. RE: The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli
From: "Joel Isaacson"
7. Re: The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli
From: "Berkant"
8. RE: Re: FW: The TORah-AURah Hypothesis
From: "Joel Isaacson"
9. Re: Undaunted Genius Solomon Lefschetz
From: "Berkant"
10. ORigin: AURiga
From: "Joel Isaacson"
11. Ashkenazim and Khazars
From: "Berkant"
12. Ur - Mensch - As Metric Engineer
From: "trixcleverspacealien"
13. Metric Engineering 101 Problem Set 1
From: Jack Sarfatti
14. Re: Metric Engineering 101 Problem Set 1 Part II
From: Jack Sarfatti
15. Taurus-Auriga Lore...
From: "Joel Isaacson"
16. Re: The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli
From: "scerir"

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:49:08 -0000
From: "Berkant"
Subject: C. F. von Weizsaecker’s Reconstruction of Physics and Burkhard Heim

I suppose that Heim's 12-dimensional theory was partly inspired by
the philosophy of physics of his teacher Weizsaecker. Heim got his
diploma in physics in 1954 when Weiszaecker "had the crucial idea:
the quantum theory of a binary alternative is the theory of objects
in a three-dimensional space."

Please keep in mind that Heim does not have extra space dimensions.
Three-dimensionality of position space is essential. The additional
dimensions are needed to describe informational processes in the
sense of Weiszaecker's ur-theory.

See below, the author mentions Rovelli, Ashtekar and Penrose.

This story reads like a divine comedy. Why?

Heim left the working group of Prof. von Weiszaecker because
Weiszaecker had not put enough confidence in the abilities of Heim
to work on the unified field theory. But Heim only wanted to work on
this topic. So Heim left and since then went his way alone but with
the confidence in his absolute mind.

And now we see the work of Weiszaecker's forgotten student who was
nearly blind, half-deaf and had no hands that his wife (married in
1950) and his father helped him during his physics study.

Heim has gone a long way and nobody is knowing him.
It must be the shame of modern physics of yesterday to future.

C. F. von Weizsaecker's Reconstruction of Physics:
Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow

Holger Lyre
Philosophy Department,
University of Bonn

http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0309183

p. 1:

Weizs¨acker's first book on the philosophy of physics, Zum Weltbild
der Physik, appeared in 1943 in its first edition—when his
professional main concern still was `real physics.' But already at
this time his `real interest' had shifted to the foundations of
quantum mechanics. About ten years later, at a spa in Bad Wildungen
in 1954, Weizsaecker had the crucial idea: the quantum theory of a
binary alternative is the theory of objects in a three-dimensional
(2), the quantum theoretical symmetry group of a binary alternative,
is locally isomorphic to the three-dimensional rotation group SO(3)
in Euclidean space. Philosophically, however, this was
now the symmetry itself was distinguished by the fact that it is the
symmetry of the simplest logical object—a yes-no-alternative.
Couldn't this be a reason for the three-dimensionality of position
space?

Weizsaecker's approach rests on two main `ingredients': firstly, the
idea of reducing physics to binary alternatives and, secondly, the
connection between spin structures and the structures of time and
space. This second motive has caused David Finkelstein (1994) to
subsume Weizsaecker's approach under the heading of "spinorism" and
this will be my main concern in this and the following section.

...

p. 2:

Weizsaecker has called the empirically decidable binary alternatives
in his reconstruction uralternatives (from the German prefix `Ur-
': `original,' `elementary,' `pre-'). A bit whimsically, he later
called them urs. Urs may be considered the fundamental objects in
physics. As a matter of principle, any physical object can be built
out of them. The reader may note that at this point an interesting
conceptual shift has occurred. We started from the notion of
information, a subjective notion in the first place, and applied it
to the objective notion of a physical object. This is another way of
saying that objects are reduced or even `made out of' information. It
seems that via this shift information has been gained the status of
a substance. In the last section I shall indeed come back to this
challenging formula, as our present working hypothesis, however, we
will take an information-theoretic reductionist view of physics in
the sense that physical objects are entirely characterized by the
information which can be gained from them.

...

Any quantum object may further be de-composed or embedded into
the tensor product of two-dimensional objects, nowadays called
quantum bits or qubits. Urs, therefore, are in fact nothing but
qubits

...

p. 5:

Can all this give us a hint how to describe (quantum) gravity in ur-
theory? We may think of ... as representing four vector bosons, i.e.
massless `gravitons' with spin 1 ... This could perhaps describe the
gravitational field in non-standard form (i.e. not as a spin-2
field) in the linearized limit.

...

p. 6:

One nice starting point for an ur-theoretic gauge theory of gravity
could be the fact that the quantized ur-tetrad generates a group
which itself could be used as a proper gauge group. It can be shown
that the Lie algebra of the ur-tetrad operators is 12-dimensional...

p. 7:

Two questions are simply unavoidable then: Does information exist
without a carrier? Does information exist without an observer or
information-gathering system?

...

As Gerard 't Hooft (cf. his 2001) has pointed out, it does
characterize physical objects on the most fundamental level not by
the three-dimensional volume they occupy in space, but by
a `projection' of their degrees of freedom on a two-dimensional area
much like a hologram. He thus calls this idea the holographic
principle. From an ur-theoretic point of view, it is rather the
characterization of physical objects in terms of pure information,
which becomes evident here.

...

Indeed, the relevance of the Bekenstein entropy has been
acknowledged and partially explained in modern quantum gravity
programs—in string theory as well as in the quantum loop approach
(cf. Rovelli 1998b). Weizs¨acker's explanation—historically the
first—is a further alternative. The Ashtekar-inspired, canonical
quantum loop approach has indeed some core similarities with ur-
theory. Like Penrose's twistor approach, quantum loop gravity has
its most suitable representation in terms of spin networks. It is
certainly the most powerful among the spinoristic programs today,
whose key feature is that they are background-free. Of course, all
of the programs mentioned are mathematically by far more elaborated
than ur-theory, which merely is an outline or perhaps a raw
framework of a spinoristic theory. The true advantage of
Weizsaecker's approach is rather its philosophical underpinning—and
this may also serve other programs.

...

As a physical program, ur-theory surely suff ers from mathematical
elaboration as compared to other programs and does therefore not
even earn the name "theory" in a strict sense. But it is still
highly impressing that Weizs¨acker had his main starting ideas
already at a time, when other programs were far from being born. The
main ingredients of ur-"theory"—information and spinorism—do exist
as central motives in modern approaches as well (as pointed out in
the above). Perhaps the future development may lead to a mutual
stimulation between other programs and the ur-hypothesis—at any rate
this is what I wish Carl Friedrich von Weizsaecker from the heart.
_______________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:23:33 -0400
From: "Joel Isaacson"
Subject: FW: The TORah-AURah Hypothesis

From: "Joel Isaacson"
To: Sarfatti@pacbell.net
Subject: The TORah-AURah Hypothesis Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:00:29 -0400

There is an ancient Hebrew phrase: Torah - Aurah, which means:
"Torah is Light" (enlightening) or "Torah Illuminates".

I propose that TORah & AURah may be references to a Taurus-Auriga
visitation via chariot (flying machine).

Note that Ezekiel describes his creatures with features of BULLs, EAGLEs,
LIONs, with feets like those of a CALF (young BULL). "BULL" is accounted
for (via "TOR"); "EAGLE" is close enough to HAWK, which is also accounted
for (via "DOVE" -- also "TOR"); "LION" (Hebrew short version "ARI").
The letters Aleph-Reish-Yud are plentiful all over that diagram, from Line
01
and on. Line 01: ====AOR=== Take the dual of O (Mem) which is
I (Yud): ====AIR====

Read it in the order A-R-I, thus a clear reference to "LION". Note that
"BULL" (Taurus) dominates the features, because all creatures have
young bull's feet (and, presumably footsteps...) So, Taurus is
definitely indicated there. Auriga, the Charioteer, is indicated thru
the entire context of the Merkavah (the chariot); also, the feet
of the creatures shine like very shiny/perfect [Kalal] copper (close enough
to
Gold - AURum, in my book...;-)) ), Ezekiel 1:7.

Ezekiel's vision may, of course, be metaphorical, or symbolic; also,
the space travelers may have been advanced enough to assume forms
that are describable by references to ordinary features of creatures
known to people... but, I submit, there is a clear message that
a UFO from AURiga+Taurus has made contact with Ezekiel in the
Land of the Kasdim (aka Mesopotamia) Ezekiel 1:3.

That must have been a repeat visit; a follow up on [an] earlier visit(s)
where the initial Urim & Thummim codes/processes have been delivered to the
Urians.
The Urians recorded those things in their cultural artifacts, including
their sacred ziggurats. Abram, the Urian, has built on those
traditions, became Avraham ha'Ivri (Avraham the crosser; one who crosses
rivers or boundaries; one who breaks the mould (also the moulds
of clay 'gods'), one who thinks outside the box... hence Ivri ==>
Hebrew).

That's, at the moment, my best shot at a reasonable hypothesis. =jdi=

From: "Joel Isaacson"
To: Sarfatti@pacbell.net
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:29:36 -0400

This thing is getting weirder by the minute...

Overlapping with TOR is also AUR (short reference for AURUM - Gold!)
So, Tor Ha'Zahav (Golden Age) is totally in there, packed into the same
3-letter stretch.

Also, there is AURIGA (abbr. AUR), see below, with English name:
CHARIOTEER.
Auriga may represent the sea god Poseidon, dring his chariot drawn by sea
horses.
[See bottom of citation below].

Auriga is adjacent to to the constellation TAURUS. Taurus Meaning
"Bull".
Bull in Aramaic is TORA (confer Chad Gadia - "ve'ata Tora ve'shata
d'maya" --
there came the BULL and drank the WATER). Bull in Hebrew is
(rare) Tor. More common is Shor.

At any rate, the same coding space packs in all this stuff:

URI, ROTEM, AUR (Light, UR-City, Gold), Golden Age; two constellations:
Auriga & Taurus;
two birds: Dove & Hawk; indirect references to chariots (via Auriga
[AUR] and the
Chariot of Poseidon); there is more in there... but that's plenty for
now. =jdi=

PS Have we had visitors from Auriga and/or Taurus?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Auriga

[Pic]

Abbreviation:
Aur
English name:
Charioteer
Coordinates
see Stellar data
Particulars:

Spectroscopical binaries alpha Aur, beta Aur
Eclipsing binaries epsilon Aur (period: 27 years), zeta Aur (period: 2 2/3
years)
Double stars theta Aur, omega Aur
Planetary nebula NGC(*) 2149
Diffuse nebulae I 405, I 410
Star clusters M 36, M 37, M 38 , NGC 2281, NGC 1907, NGC 1664
Meteor Showers: Aurigids, Alpha Aurigids, Delta Aurigids, Zeta Aurigids
General:

A quite large constellation of the northern hemisphere, located between
DECL=55 degrees and DECL=28 degrees, RA=7h 30m and RA=4h 40m. There is no
star gamma Aur. The reason for this is that the star, which would be
listed as gamma Aur is shared with the constellation Taurus (its lying
exactly on the boundary) and is listed as beta Tau.
As the Milky Way runs through this constellation it is quite a pleasure to
view this part of the sky.

Stars and other objects

The yellow giant alpha Aur, called Capella, is the 6th brightest star in
the sky (0.08 mag). It is also a spectroscopic binary consisting of a
G5III and a G0III. They revolve each other every 104 days.
Menkalinen, beta Aur, is also a spectroscopic binary. Within just four
days the stars complete their revolution much faster than those of alpha
Aur. Since they are eclipsing each other the brightness of beta Aur seems
to vary.
The eclipsing binary epsilon Aur has an extradinary long period; every
27.1 years the brightness varies from 3.0 mag down to 3.8 mag as the
brighter component is then eclipsed by the darker companion. This eclipse
lasts a full year (the last eclipse took place in 1983). Caculations show
that the dark component of epsilon Aur has about 10 -12 solar masses.
Because of its small size it is a good candidate for a black hole;
unfortunately this conflicts with the observed lost of brightness during
the eclipse. According to studies of Wilson and Cameron the solution is a
ring of obsuring material which surrounds the black hole. (There is still
doubt that the companion is a black hole; a star which a 10 times smaller
brightness would fit the model, too.)
Another eclipsing binary is zeta Aur; a K4 bright giant and a B8 main
sequence star revolve each other every 2 2/3 years.
The double omega Aur can be viewed with small telescopes; it consists of a
5th mag and a 8th mag companion.
Telescopes with an aperture of at least 100mm and a high magnification are
required to split the tight double theta Aur. An A0psi star of 2.62 mag is
accompanied by a star of 7th mag.
The planetary nebula NGC(*) 2149 (the asterix indicates that this object
can be found in the NGC supplementary catalogs of J.L.E. Dreyer) appears
as a small oval ring of 10th mag.
The diffuse nebula I 405 is also called Flaming Star.
I 410 consists of a cluster with an nebulosity attached.
There a several open clusters in this constellations.
About 60 members belong to M36. Its a good object for the use of
binoculars. A beautiful group of stars is M38 showing an oval shape. The
richest of these three Messier objects is M37. It contains about 150 stars
with magnitudes of 12.5 and brighter and about 500 in total. Detailed
information about all three Messier objects can be found in the Messier
database.
The meteor shower of the Aurigids is generally observable between January,
31st, and February, 23rd. This shower is known for its bright fireballs.
From August, 25th, till September 6th, the shower of the Alpha Aurigids is
active. Although the annual maximum is about 9 meteors, outbursts of up to
30 were observed in 1935 and 1986.
The Delta Aurigids may be observed between September 22nd and Ovctober
23rd. The maximum of this shower occurs around October 6th to October
15th.

Mythological Background:

Auriga may represent the sea god Poseidon, dring his chariot drawn by sea
horses.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

From: "Joel Isaacson"
To: Sarfatti@pacbell.net
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:32:45 -0400

ALERT: I overlooked the obvious: in these cryptic environments entities
are always associated with their OPPOSITES!

DOVE <=> HAWK

You've got your BIRD, Jacob!!! =jdi=

From: "Joel Isaacson"
To: Sarfatti@pacbell.net
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:11:08 -0400

Jacob,

In re "Rut" below, there is more. Rut (Ruth) was great-grandma of King
David,
and may deserve a big showing in that diagram... and she also happens
to mingle
with Uri & Rotem...

Now, reversing "RUT" we have "TOR" in there. TOR has at leat two
meanings:

(1) Era or age; as in "Tor Ha'Zahav" -- Golden Age [in Spain]. Tor
Ha'Zahav
is a very specific phrase used in regard to Jewish intellectual flourish
in Spain.
Therefore, "Tor" could be a reference to that.

(2) Dove; symbol of peace and restoration, especially after turmoil
--
see Noah and the Flood... AND... the DOVE being a bird, well,
you are interested in "Conference of the Birds" -- let the Tor be
a delegate...

=jdi=

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SPECIAL MESSAGE FOR URI GELLER ====>>>
=====================================

Uri, im ata kore' et zeh, kal me'od lir'ot et ha'tzofan. Titrakez
b'shura
03:

.......................................>O<=>O<

Tachniss otioit ivriot:..........AMRVAMR

A - Aleph
M - Mem sofit (aval gumm Yud, le'fee Atbash)
V - Vav
R - Reish

Bamercaz, <=> zeh RVA; mee'yamin le'small: OAR (Light) ve'gumm
Ur.

Yachad im ha'mem mee'small zeh MRVA. Ha'mem (le'fee Atbash) hoo Yud
===>>
Le'feechach: ha'shem shelcha b'shlaymuto!

TARGEEL: Metza et ha'shem "ROTEM" be'otah ha'shura.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
For Devorah,

....................:..........AMRVAMR

Uri shows up here: *MRVA** , after Atbash replacement of M by I
(Yud):

(Aleph-Vav-Reish-Yud)

Now, back to............AMRVAMR

Rotem is here............**RVAM* , after Atbash replacement of A by T:

(Reish-Vav-Tav-Mem)

CAN YOU SEE THIS? CAN YOU SEE THE OVERLAP BETWEEN "RV" PORTIONS
OF BOTH URI AND ROTEM? These guys are entangled, while moving
in opposite directions!!! -- Joel

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:48:09 -0000
From: "Berkant"
Subject: The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli

Serafino Cerulli-Irelli, your homepage is not working anymore.
What happened?

Did you know that Irelli means "one with a big hand" in Turkish.
In Turkish you can say with one word where you need several words in
other languages.

Now, your name Turkish name Irelli rhymes to Fulcanelli.
Or was it originally Urelli or maybe Turelli?:-)

Today, I got a forward from Doc Savage with a message from
Terry "Goldratio". Just got in mind this funny word. Maybe worth
looking in google again. Goldratio in google gives 233 hits and the
second one on AI. Forget the first hit. It's Chinese. So AI is first?

The Awakening-Editing-AI
... before that. [GoldRatio]. build = 0.30 ; % of resources will go
toward building and upgrading settlements and other stand-alone
structures(float). ...
http://www.strategyplanet.com/kohan/kis/editing/ai_editing.htm

But I don't like the idea of AI. Do you care?

Anyway, now back to Terry "Goldratio".:-)

He was talking about Fulcanelli. This is a nice reminder for me to
read the book I ordered in 1996 but have never read one single page:

Fulcanelli Master Alchemist - Le Mystere des Cathedrales - Esoteric
Interpretation of the Hermetic Symbols of The Great Work -
of Life, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 1990.

Hope she made it good. Probably better to get a French copy.

the universal language:

"CONFERENCE OF THE BIRDS":

SEE: http://www.sangraal.com/library/gsa11.html

The 13th century Sufi masterpiece, the Conference of the Birds, by
Fariduddin Attar the Chemist, uses this device with great effect.

...

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/afrm0200.html

Subject: A0158 The Language of the Birds

The director Peter ****Brook spent a number of years working on a
play called, "The Conference of the Birds". The play was built off
of a poem by the sufi poet Attar (The conference of the Birds).
The work of the play consisted of a breaking down of language
to arrive at a more direct communication between the audience and
the performers. A search to find a commonness in all languages. From
what I understand, they put work into finding links between tones
and sounds that come from the voice and the intuitive messages that
are communicated. (Phonetic cabala?)

I don't know if Attar and ****Brooks' "Conference of the Birds" has
any relation to Fucanelli's "Language of the birds" but there could
be a parallel there.

...

From: Marcella Gillick
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:16:22 +0000

I apologise in advance if I am wasting the forum's time with this
post - I have a feeling it may be relevant, but am not at all sure.

In response to: A0190 The Language of the Birds
From: calhhh
......................
2) Fulcanelli also mentions another book by the same author called
"HISTORY OF THE BIRDS", where during the narration he makes some oak
trees speek in the universal language, making also an alusion to the
language of the druids ..

3) He also mentions that this Language, by means of the hermetic
qabalah, was quite known in Egypt, at least by the sacerdotal class,
and he cites the LEIDEN PAPYRUS : "I invoke thee, the most powerful
of gods, you that all have created; to You, born of yourself, whom
can see everything without being seen .. I invoke you by the name
that you possess in the LANGUAGE OF THE BIRDS, in that of the
hieroglyphs, in that of the Jews, in that of the Egyptians, in that
of the cinocephalus..., in that of the hawks, in the hieratic
(sacerdotal) language."

4) He goes further to mention that even the INCAS of Peru until the
Spanish conquest spoke a general (universal) language and a cortesan
(diplomatic) language, since this latest one, reserved only to a
few, had a double and profound meaning.

---

--- In SarfattiScienceSeminars@yahoogroups.com, "scerir"
wrote:

There is, also, the Ur-theory, by Carl
Friedrich Freiherr von Weizsaecker
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9611048
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0309183
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0212084

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:52:35 -0000
From: "Berkant"
Subject: Re: FW: The TORah-AURah Hypothesis

Huh, then let me also add the first part of Terry Arbegust's
message:-)

The Origin of the Aviary?

The 13th century Sufi masterpiece, the Conference of the Birds, by
Attar the Chemist, uses this device with great effect.

WHICH IS FOUND IN THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH:

The true leaders of the Crusade were co-existing just fine with the
Sephardic Jews of France and Spain.

The school of Troyes played a major role in this climate of
acceptance. The Jews of Troyes were not persecuted, but accepted as
good vassals of the Count. Their teachings, based primarily around
the Bahir, emphasized the Merkabah, the cubic throne or vehicle by
which one ascends toward The Light on the Gnostic journey or path of
return. This, by a simple phonetic transposition common to the more
Arabic flavor of Sephardic Hebrew, becomes a multi-lingual pun. The
vehicle is the Mer-Kaaba, or stone of the sea mentioned in the
Bahir, as well as the Mer-Caballus, or the sea horse of Merovingian
fame. We find this kind of multi-lingual punning most often in the
Arabic literature of Iran and Persia, where many languages mingled
with classical Arabic. The 13th century Sufi masterpiece, the
Conference of the Birds, by Attar the Chemist, uses this device with
great effect.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:11:41 -0000
From: "Berkant"
Subject: Re: The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli

1 item only. A dissertation in philosophy from Germany.

http://www.ub.uni-koeln.de/ediss/archiv/2001/11w1136.pdf

REBECCA HORNS ZWITTERMASCHINEN
Studien zur androgynen Ikonographie

vorgelegt von
Katrin Fröhlich
aus Köln

Köln, den 10.01.2001

What is Androgyne?? Zwittermaschinen?? Zwitter means hermaphrodite
in biological sense or hybrid in technical sense.

Hybrid Machines?? Is Katrin talking about AI?? No, obviously not.
But in her dissertation she also uses the phrase "Die hybriden
Maschinen der Rebecca Horn".

Urmensch as Androgyne?? What having both..?:-)

Like 66 having 45 and 15 connected by 6??

Look, look, Katrin writes that this thought is especially important
in Alchemy.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:14:11 -0400
From: "Joel Isaacson"
Subject: RE: The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli

Following may be good for the birds...

http://stardrive.org/cartoon/dan.html

In "Dictionary of the Khazars" Milorad Pavic has an early scene
where a contemporary Israeli woman professor of linguistic comes upon
a parrot in Istanbul which (yes!) speaks the ancient (now
extinct) language of the Khazars. In turns out that
a Khazari princess had schooled her pet parrot with that language,
then purposely released it to the wild... That Ur-parrot
taught that language to its offspring, and that 'tradition'
was carried on by parrots to this day...

Berkant may be able to tell us much more about the Khazars,
a people of Asia Minor who had converted to Judaism
(with the involvement of Yehuda Ha'Levi of Spain...)

=jdi=

From: "Berkant"
To: SarfattiScienceSeminars@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Starfleet Command] The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:48:09 -0000

Serafino Cerulli-Irelli, your homepage is not working anymore.
What happened?

Did you know that Irelli means "one with a big hand" in Turkish.
In Turkish you can say with one word where you need several words in
other languages.

Now, your name Turkish name Irelli rhymes to Fulcanelli.
Or was it originally Urelli or maybe Turelli?:-)

Today, I got a forward from Doc Savage with a message from
Terry "Goldratio". Just got in mind this funny word. Maybe worth
looking in google again. Goldratio in google gives 233 hits and the
second one on AI. Forget the first hit. It's Chinese. So AI is first?

The Awakening-Editing-AI
... before that. [GoldRatio]. build = 0.30 ; % of resources will go
toward building and upgrading settlements and other stand-alone
structures(float). ...
http://www.strategyplanet.com/kohan/kis/editing/ai_editing.htm

But I don't like the idea of AI. Do you care?

Anyway, now back to Terry "Goldratio".:-)

He was talking about Fulcanelli. This is a nice reminder for me to
read the book I ordered in 1996 but have never read one single page:

Fulcanelli Master Alchemist - Le Mystere des Cathedrales - Esoteric
Interpretation of the Hermetic Symbols of The Great Work -
of Life, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 1990.

Hope she made it good. Probably better to get a French copy.

the universal language:

"CONFERENCE OF THE BIRDS":

SEE: http://www.sangraal.com/library/gsa11.html

The 13th century Sufi masterpiece, the Conference of the Birds, by
Fariduddin Attar the Chemist, uses this device with great effect.

...

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/afrm0200.html

Subject: A0158 The Language of the Birds

The director Peter ****Brook spent a number of years working on a
play called, "The Conference of the Birds". The play was built off
of a poem by the sufi poet Attar (The conference of the Birds).
The work of the play consisted of a breaking down of language
to arrive at a more direct communication between the audience and
the performers. A search to find a commonness in all languages. From
what I understand, they put work into finding links between tones
and sounds that come from the voice and the intuitive messages that
are communicated. (Phonetic cabala?)

I don't know if Attar and ****Brooks' "Conference of the Birds" has
any relation to Fucanelli's "Language of the birds" but there could
be a parallel there.

...

From: Marcella Gillick
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:16:22 +0000

I apologise in advance if I am wasting the forum's time with this
post - I have a feeling it may be relevant, but am not at all sure.

In response to: A0190 The Language of the Birds
From: calhhh
......................
2) Fulcanelli also mentions another book by the same author called
"HISTORY OF THE BIRDS", where during the narration he makes some oak
trees speek in the universal language, making also an alusion to the
language of the druids ..

3) He also mentions that this Language, by means of the hermetic
qabalah, was quite known in Egypt, at least by the sacerdotal class,
and he cites the LEIDEN PAPYRUS : "I invoke thee, the most powerful
of gods, you that all have created; to You, born of yourself, whom
can see everything without being seen .. I invoke you by the name
that you possess in the LANGUAGE OF THE BIRDS, in that of the
hieroglyphs, in that of the Jews, in that of the Egyptians, in that
of the cinocephalus..., in that of the hawks, in the hieratic
(sacerdotal) language."

4) He goes further to mention that even the INCAS of Peru until the
Spanish conquest spoke a general (universal) language and a cortesan
(diplomatic) language, since this latest one, reserved only to a
few, had a double and profound meaning.

---

--- In SarfattiScienceSeminars@yahoogroups.com, "scerir"
wrote:

There is, also, the Ur-theory, by Carl
Friedrich Freiherr von Weizsaecker
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9611048
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0309183
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0212084

http://www.1st-books.com

Now Authorhouse.com

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:20:57 -0000
From: "Berkant"
Subject: Re: The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli

A Resource for Turkic and Jewish History in Russia and Ukraine

http://www.khazaria.com/

Berkant

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:31:15 -0400
From: "Joel Isaacson"
Subject: RE: Re: FW: The TORah-AURah Hypothesis

From: "Berkant"
To: SarfattiScienceSeminars@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Starfleet Command] Re: FW: The TORah-AURah Hypothesis
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:52:35 -0000

Huh, then let me also add the first part of Terry Arbegust's
message:-)

The Origin of the Aviary?

The 13th century Sufi masterpiece, the Conference of the Birds, by
Attar the Chemist, uses this device with great effect.

WHICH IS FOUND IN THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH:

The true leaders of the Crusade were co-existing just fine with the
Sephardic Jews of France and Spain.

The school of Troyes played a major role in this climate of
acceptance. The Jews of Troyes were not persecuted, but accepted as
good vassals of the Count. Their teachings, based primarily around
the Bahir, emphasized the Merkabah, the cubic throne or vehicle by
which one ascends toward The Light on the Gnostic journey or path of
return. This, by a simple phonetic transposition common to the more
Arabic flavor of Sephardic Hebrew, becomes a multi-lingual pun. The
vehicle is the Mer-Kaaba, or stone of the sea mentioned in the
Bahir, as well as the Mer-Caballus, or the sea horse of Merovingian
fame. We find this kind of multi-lingual punning most often in the
Arabic literature of Iran and Persia, where many languages mingled
with classical Arabic. The 13th century Sufi masterpiece, the
Conference of the Birds, by Attar the Chemist, uses this device with
great effect.

Yes, I understand the above paragraph, the mulitinguistic (playful)
punning, especially in classical Arabic. (I am fluent in Sephardic
Hebrew, and know some classical Arabic...). Recall that
The Tower of Babel (a ziggurat structure) had been abandoned
because the "mixing up" of languages... the object is
to get as close as we possibly can to pre-Towerist times,
dominated by the Taurusist-Aurigean ideogramic/steganogramic language...
the language of the flying aviaries on that chariot/merkavah...

In effect, to undo that "mix-up"... =jdi=

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:33:44 -0000
From: "Berkant"
Subject: Re: Undaunted Genius Solomon Lefschetz

Many famous Jewish scientists like Solomon Lefschetz were of Khazar
origin. And some even are not aware of their Urigin.:-)

And again a Divine Comedy that many famous came from Hungary or
Magyary.

BTW, this guy Lefschetz was involved with Martin Marietta's Gravity
Research Programme and was a friend of Trimble mentioned in Nick
Cook's book. Jack likes to quote Trimble. And it was again Trimble
who was in touch with the mentioned German scientists.

--- In SarfattiScienceSeminars@yahoogroups.com, "Berkant"
wrote:

Let's look in google for this undaunted genius who passed away
when
I was just three months in my mother's womb.:-)

http://www-gap.dcs.st-
and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Lefschetz.html

Solomon Lefschetz
Born: 3 Sept 1884 in Moscow, Russia
Died: 5 Oct 1972 in Princeton, New Jersey, USA

Solomon Lefschetz was a Russian born, Jewish mathematician who was
the main source of the algebraic aspects of topology. His father
Alexander Lefschetz and his mother Vera were both Turkish citizens
but since Alexander Lefschetz worked as an importer he was
required
to travel a great deal. As a consequence the family decided to
make
a base for themselves in France where their children could be
educated. Shortly after Solomon was born his family set up home in
Paris.

Since Lefschetz was educated in France from a young age, French
was
his first language. He trained to be an engineer at the École
Centrale in Paris from 1902 to 1905 and there attended lectures by
Emile Picard and Paul Appell. However, not being a French citizen
he
would have found great difficulty obtaining an academic post in
France. Fully understanding this, in November 1905 at the age of
21,
Lefschetz went to the United States. For a few months he worked at
the Baldwin Locomotive works, then from 1907 to 1910 he worked for
Westinghouse Electric Company in Pittsburgh. He had the misfortune
to lose both his hands in a laboratory accident in November 1907
when they were burnt off in a transformer explosion. He also lost
his forearms and spent a while in hospital.
---
"Solomon Lefschetz" gravity in google: 66 results

Item 5:

Solomon Islands/Geography - encyclopedia article about
Solomon ... -
... In physical geography, erosion is the displacement of solids
(earth, mud, rock, and so forth) by the agent of wind or water, or
movement in response to gravity ...

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/ Solomon%
20Islands/Geography

This is funny. Solomon Islands are often mentioned in context with
ufos, flying triangles, giants and dwarfs etc. Some even have
descriptions close to the sufi tales about Gog and Magog.
Anyway, this is not what I really looked for now.:-)
But I should bookmark this link. Hmmm, a Solomon Islands Guide for
\$10.39. Maybe Jack will need one soon..

---

Item 6:

H. ... ... celestial mechanics under Aurel Wintner and Solomon
Lefschetz, Bass unfortunately ... lattice,
plasma-theoretical electromagnetic theory of gravity" (for
effects ...

The name of Robert Bass seemed to ring a bell for me: he figured
in
the
Velikovsky controversy, which has become a classic in the history
of
doubtful or marginal or pseudo-science--see my book BEYOND
VELIKOVSKY: THE
HISTORY OF A PUBLIC CONTROVERSY, University of Illinois Press,
1986.
I got
in touch with Leroy Ellenberger, who is the most knowledgeable
person
about the continuing Velikovskian saga and related matters; and he
supplied the following for posting:
"Followers of the polemical assault by Robert W. Bass on Frank
Close's TOO
HOT TO HANDLE and the reaction to it may be interested to know
that
in the
1970s and early 1980s Bass applied his rhetorical skills to defend
Velikovsky's WORLDS IN COLLISION. Despite having studied celestial
mechanics under Aurel Wintner and Solomon Lefschetz, Bass
unfortunately
failed to appreciate the fact that the circular restricted three-
body
problem does not apply to the Sun-Jupiter-Venus and Sun-Earth-Mars
systems. Bass also fragrantly misrepresented sources: for example,
claiming incorrectly that the work of Hills and Ovenden supports a
Velikovskian time-scale of mere centuries for random planetary
orbits to
settle into a Bode's-Law type of resonant configuration.
Bass spoke at Velikovskian conferences in Hamilton, Ontario (1974),
Glasgow, Scotland (1978), and San Jose CA (1980). The contents of
these
addresses were published in four articles widely hailed by
Velikovsky's
supporters: 1) "Did Worlds Collide?" and 2) "'Proofs' of the
Stability of
the Solar System" in Pensee VIII (1974), 3) "Can Worlds Collide?"
in
Kronos I:3 (1975), and 4) "The Celestial Dynamics of 'Worlds in
Collision'" in SIS Review VI:1-3 (1982). "Proofs" was reprinted in
Kronos
II:2 (1976) and SIS Review III:1 (1978). For a copy of No.4, send
a
SASE
to the writer.
Bass drew upon the work of Siegel, Moser, Arnol'd, Giacaglia,
Danby,
and
Graff to argue that Newtonian dynamics does not exclude the orbital
changes implied by Velikovsky and that "wild motions" described by
Danby
are a key along with M. A. Cook's "sophisticated Madelung-force,
dynamic-
lattice, plasma-theoretical electromagnetic theory of gravity" (for
effects during collisions). A. E. Roy thought enough of Bass's
ideas
to
cite him in ORBITAL MOTION (1978). Bass also believes that all
systems of
radiometric dating have been refuted by Cook in PREHISTORY AND
EARTH
MODELS (1966).
Bass pays no attention to criticism, either. He continued to trade
on
"wild motions" after T. C. Flandern told him in a letter dated 22
May 1975
that they do not apply to the planets in the solar system and
ignored this
and other criticism by Ellenberger published in SIS Review VIIA
(1982/3),
Kronos X:1 (1984) and Kronos XI:1.
Thousand
Oaks,
CA 91360.
[submitted by] Leroy Ellenberger, formerly Senior Editor, Kronos;
3929A
Utah Street, St. Louis, MO 63116; phone (314) 772-4286"

|===================================================================|
| Henry H. Bauer, Professor of Chemistry & Science
Studies |
| VPI&SU, Blacksburg VA 24061-
0212 |
| Internet: BAUERH @ VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Bitnet: BAUERH @
VTVM1) |
| Phone: (703)231-8217(office)/4239(secretary)/951-2107
(home) |
| FAX: (703)231-
3255 |

|===================================================================|
| THE ONLY THING
NECESSARY |
| FOR THE TRIUMPH OF
EVIL |
| IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO
NOTHING |

|===================================================================|

---

Dan mentioned Donald Menzel who also debunked Velikosky who was
later proved right with his assumption of sun's charge. That is at
least what I read. Have not checked. You can correct me. But maybe
it is time to order the book "World in Collision" which is the
most
favorite book of my spiritual master..

---

http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Search/historysearch.cgi?

As we mentioned Whitehead's interests turned more towards topology
near the end of his three years in Princeton when he collaborated
with Lefschetz in proving that all analytic manifolds can be
triangulated.

...
http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/References/Lefschetz.html

---

http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/~cwesterl/107/topics.html

Cherished myths are debunked along the way as Gian-Carlo Rota
takes
pleasure in portraying, warts and all, some of the great
scientific
personalities of the period-Stanislav Ulam (who together with
Edward
Teller, signed the patent application for the hydrogen bomb),
Solomon Lefschetz (Chairman in the 50s of the Princeton
mathematics
department), William Feller (one of the founders of modern
probability theory), Jack Schwartz (one of the founders of
computing
science), and many others.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:07:13 -0400
From: "Joel Isaacson"
Subject: ORigin: AURiga

"Origin" in Latin: Origo -- (orriri) rise ; such as in SUNRISE, the thing
that
gives "OR" (Light), a Beginning (of the day).

I submit (as a hypothesis) that our ultimate Ur is in AURIGA,
the constellation of the Chariot, which is confederated with
the constellation of Taurus. Auriga-Taurus chariots had visited
Mesopotamian Ur and its environs a number of times and echoes of
those events are reverberating in Mesopotamian artifacts, as well as
Hebrew (and other) sacred writings. =jdi=

PS The URI/ROTEM thing relates to this saga.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:07:23 -0000
From: "Berkant"
Subject: Ashkenazim and Khazars

When talking about Ur. My Kurdish wife comes from Ur (today Urfa)
where Prophet Abraham (peace be unto him) lived. What was the
meaning of Ur again???

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

Like the other Jewish communities in the study, the Ashkenazic
community of Northern and Central Europe, from which most American
Jews are descended, shows less diversity than expected in its
mitochondrial DNA, perhaps reflecting the maternal definition of
Jewishness. But unlike the other Jewish populations, it does not
show signs of having had very few female founders. It is possible,
Dr. Goldstein said, that the Ashkenazic community is a mosaic of
separate populations formed the same way as the others.... 'The
authors are correct in saying the historical origins of most Jewish
communities are unknown,' Dr. [Shaye] Cohen [of Harvard University]
said. 'Not only the little ones like in India, but even the
mainstream Ashkenazic culture from which most American Jews
descend.'....

Excerpts:

"The most-frequent haplotype in all three Jewish groups (the CMH
[haplotype 159 in the Appendix]) segregated on a Eu 10 background,
together with the three modal haplotypes in Palestinians and Bedouin
(haplotypes 144, 151, and 166). The dominant haplotype of the Muslim
Kurds (haplotype 114) was only one microsatellite-mutation step
apart from the CMH and the modal haplotype of the Bedouin, but it
belonged to haplogroup Eu 9. .... Previous studies of Y chromosome
polymorphisms reported a small European contribution to the
Ashkenazi paternal gene pool (Santachiara-Benerecetti et al. 1993;
Hammer et al. 2000). In our sample, this low-level gene flow may be
reflected in the Eu 19 chromosomes, which are found at elevated
frequency (12.7%) in Ashkenazi Jews and which are very frequent in
Eastern Europeans (54%-60%) (Semino et al. 2000). Alternatively, it
is attractive to hypothesize that Ashkenazim with Eu 19 chromosomes
represent descendants of the Khazars, originally a Turkic tribe from
Central Asia, who settled in southern Russia and eastern Ukraine and
converted en masse to Judaism in the ninth century of the present
era, as described by Yehuda Ha-Levi in 1140 A.D. (Dunlop 1954)."

...

Judy Siegel. "Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe."
Jerusalem Post (November 20, 2001). Excerpts:

"Despite being separated for over 1,000 years, Sephardi Jews of
North African origin are genetically indistinguishable from their
brethren from Iraq, according to The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
They also proved that Sephardi Jews are very close genetically to
the Jews of Kurdistan, and only slight differences exist between
these two groups and Ashkenazi Jews from Europe. These conclusions
are reached in an article published recently in the American Journal
of Human Genetics and written by Prof. Ariella Oppenheim of the
Hebrew University (HU) and Hadassah-University Hospital in Ein
Kerem. Others involved are German doctoral student Almut Nebel, Dr.
Marina Faerman of HU, Dr. Dvora Filon of Hadassah-University
Hospital, and other colleagues from Germany and India. The
researchers conducted blood tests of Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Kurdish
Jews and examined their Y chromosomes, which are carried only by
males. They then compared them with those of various Arab groups -
Palestinians, Beduins, Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese - as well as
to non-Arab populations from Transcaucasia - Turks, Armenians and
Moslem Kurds. The study is based on 526 Y chromosomes typed by the
Israeli team and additional data on 1,321 individuals from 12
populations... Surprisingly, the study shows a closer genetic
affinity by Jews to the non-Jewish, non-Arab populations in the
northern part of the Middle East than to Arabs."

...

The Jewish World: This Week in Israel." Global Jewish Agenda (Jewish
Agency for Israel, November 22, 2001). Excerpts:

"A new study by the Hebrew University in Jerusalem reveals: the
Kurds are the people closest to the Jews genetically. Scientists who
carried out the study, including Prof. Ariella Friedman [sic:
Oppenheim] and Dr. Marina Fireman [sic: Faerman], say that according
to the findings, the Jews and the Kurds share common ancient
forefathers, who lived in the northern part of the Fertile Crescent
(a part of contemporary Iraq and Syria). Some moved southward in pre-
historic times and settled along the eastern seaboard of the
Mediterranean. The researchers say that they were surprised to find
that the Jews were closer genetically to the Kurds (and to the
Turks) than to their Arab neighbors. The findings of the study,
which for the first time included a comparison between DNA samples
from Jews and DNA samples from Muslim Kurds, also surprised
historians such as Prof. Bezalel Bar-Kochba of Tel-Aviv University
and Dr. Gunner Lehman of Ben-Gurion University in the Negev, who
said: "`It is difficult to explain the findings within the context
of the knowledge we have about material and historic culture.'"

...

Nadine Epstein. "Family Matters: Funny, We Don't Look Jewish."
Hadassah Magazine 82:5 (January 2001). Excerpts:

"...As the fair-haired, blue-eyed daughter of a woman who looks more
Nordic than Jewish, I always wondered if I was really Semitic. My
siblings and I didn't look much like most other Jews - Ashkenazic or
Sefardic... As a child, I blamed our looks on Cossack rapes. When I
read Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe, I bought his theory
that Ashkenazim were descended from the Khazars, a Caucasian people
who had converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages. The search for
genetic knowledge strikes a deep chord among Jews. Last year,
through my local genealogy society, I met Dr. Harry Ostrer, head of
the Human Genetics Program at the New York University School of
Medicine... The study of evolutionary and genetic history through
DNA analysis is transforming what we know about ourselves... In
1997, Karl Skorecki in Haifa, Michael Hammer in Tucson and several
London researchers surprised everyone by finding evidence of the
Jewish priestly line of males, the Kohanim. Half of Ashkenazic men
and slightly more than half of Sefardic men who claimed to be
Kohanim were found to have a distinctive set of genetic markers on
their Y chromosome, making it highly possible that they are
descendants of a single male or group of related males who lived
between 1180 and 650 B.C.E., about the time of Moses and Aaron. The
Kohen marker is but a fragment of the information gleaned from DNA
analysis... A study published last year in the Proceedings of the
National Academy of Science looked at the Y chromosomes of 1,371
males from seven Jewish population groups and came up with a profile
of Jewish genes. They found 13 major Y-chromosome patterns or
signatures, called haplotypes. 'The haplotypes of all but Ethiopian
Jews shared a similar pattern,' says Ostrer, a member of the study
team led by Hammer and Batsheva Bonne-Tamir of Tel-Aviv
University. 'This means we are not descended from one person or 12
tribes but 13 founder males.' The same 13 haplotypes, by the way,
are common among Middle Eastern Arabs including Palestinians and
Syrians. They also show up in Greeks and other ancient Mediterranean
lines, who may date from the time before Jews emerged as a
people... 'We are definitely Jews,' says Ostrer. 'We share Jewish
haplotype patterns.' Ostrer estimates the European admixture over 80
generations is an extremely low 0.5 percent. The study also found
that male Jews of Russian and Polish ancestry do not have a
chromosome profile similar to Russian and Polish non-Jews.
Haplotypes have also helped the identity seekers to retrace the path
of the wandering Ashkenazic Jew. We who hail from East Europe most
likely migrated there from Alsace and Rhineland, says Ostrer, as
confirmed by Yiddish, a form of low German. Based on his study of
Roman Jews, Ostrer concludes that Ashkenazim lived in Italy for a
thousand years before they migrated into Alsace and
Rhineland. 'There's no genetic difference between Ashkenazic and
Roman Jews, who say they have lived in Italy for 2,000 years,' he
observes. Ostrer and Hammer are now conducting the largest study of
Jewish genetics so far, trying to determine how we are all related,
and tracing the migrations that formed communities during the 2,000
years of diaspora... 'Being Jewish is a spiritual, metaphysical
state and DNA is a physical characteristic, like nose size,' said
Skorecki in an interview in The Jerusalem Report. 'But we wouldn't
dare go around saying we're going to determine who is Jewish by the
length of their nose. Similarly we're not going to determine who is
Jewish by the sequence of their DNA.'... And so for me, the
positives of Y-chromosome analysis far outweigh the possible
negatives. We are an ancient group of clans descended from 13
polygamous men, and our genetic history is part of the redefinition
of humanity... 'Blonde genes occur in Middle Eastern groups as
well,' he [Ostrer] explains. 'There is no evidence that white skin
and blue eyes originated in northern Europe. That is a Nordic myth.
Semitic people had the whole range.'... Researchers have only begun
to study the mitochondria of Jewish women... Mitochondria will
likely reveal different data: Women were more likely than men to
relocate and convert due to marriage... My father and brother are
descendants of the clan known as Haplotype Four, the second largest
group of Ashkenazim, and common among Middle Eastern and southern
European populations. My son is descended from a clan that is part
of Haplotype One, which has a Y-chromosome pattern common in central
and western Asian populations... 'These clans were formed a long
time ago,' says Ostrer. 'They all ended up in the Middle East and
landed in Ur where Abraham lived. He convinced some of them to adopt
[the God of Israel] and when they did, they brought their Y
chromosomes with them. Their next-door neighbors waited for Allah.
They brought their chromosomes with them, too.'"

--- In SarfattiScienceSeminars@yahoogroups.com, "Berkant"
wrote:

A Resource for Turkic and Jewish History in Russia and Ukraine

http://www.khazaria.com/

Berkant

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:22:16 -0000
From: "trixcleverspacealien"
Subject: Ur - Mensch - As Metric Engineer

[date and time posted on SSS: 08-24-04 at 06:17p.m.c.d.t.]

A question for Sufi Berkant.

In regards to the Djinn, how would you interpret the Orisha of the
Yoruba and Dogon,[west africa]

Example: Eshu Elegbara the Orisha that guards the Crossroads, where /
when the Physical world intersects with the Supernatural world?
For a moment lets imagine the 96% of the Universe 73% / 23% dark
energy / matter as supernatural, and / or virtual as an intellectual
excercise.

SEE: http://www.carnaval.com/sf00/trickster.htm

and: http://www.techgnosis.com/

http://www.lumen.org/issue_contents/contents19.html

[05:08p.m. 08-24-04]start to write.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarfattiScienceSeminars/message/6171

From: "Berkant"
Date: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:52 pm
Subject: All-Mensch or Ur-Mensch and Life in Cycles

In German, we also say Ur-Mensch (Prototype Man or Universal Man).
What does it mean?

An ape man from Tony's Voodoo Africa?? Or simply Adam??

ETC:

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

NEXT: t.c.s.a writes:

Replace the sentence found in the paragraph below : Out of these
struggles the world of matter and humans came into existence.

With this edited sentence: Out of Per Ardua Ad Astra, through
Struggles to the Stars the SuperCosmos
was Metric Engineered by the Ur - Mensch, and the universe and / or
multiverse of matter and humans came into existence.

http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/supp08.htm

And what of the broader Hellenistic world? What connection did such a
glorified Adam in Jewish tradition have with what seems to have been
a more widespread myth of a Primal Man (which scholars usually refer
to by the German term "Ur-mensch")? This Primal Man used to
be
thought of as deriving from ancient Iranian and Babylonian mythology.
He was a heavenly being, a first-born, who existed with God from the
beginning, sometimes as a king of paradise. He was involved in
struggles in the heavenly realms with forces of evil and chaos. Out
of these struggles the world of matter and humans came into
existence. In some versions, humanity even contains fallen portions
of this Primal Man. Eventually he becomes a Redeemer who descends to
earth, reveals God to humans and the fact that they possess divine
elements within themselves; finally, he shows them how to ascend to
heaven and regain their original divine home.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Deja Veu: Perhaps this Acausal Looping explains "Synchronicity"?

ALSO SPECULATION: Around and Around we go, where we stop we all know:
Earth ;-)

Could this UR-Mensch possibly be the Oe "Back From the Future" in
Jack Sarfatti's Superluminal Universe?

Oe came from outer space, landed in the Euphrates river then Oe
pushed Oe's "EGG shaped" craft saucer time machine, in this case
[almost spherical needed for a Sarfattian Flying Saucer?] to shore
and taught humans geomtry, math, and philosphy thereby completing an
Acausal [physics definition of Acausal] loop in time.

History repeats itself?: Iraq, the Garden of Eden?

If so will we "get it right" this time around?

http://www.qedcorp.com/book/

and Me 1953 /
"Remember when you were young?" / Space-Time and Beyond ETC:

SEE:

Robert Temple's, "The Sirius Mystery" page 266

PRESERVED BY PHOTIUS, (c. A.D. 820-c. 893]

PRESERVED IN THE FORM OF A SUMMARY (Codex 279)

ALSO SEE:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/afrm0200.html

[t.c.s.a. comment: Conference Of The Birds=: The Language Of the
Birds.]

Subject: A0192 The Language of the Birds
From: Leonid M. Kokun
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 96 12:15:57 +0300

From: Russ House
... In Hebrew, Ur, the root of Uranus, means
light; also fortress or castle...

The etymology of the Greek "Ouranos" is presumably Indo-European, and
it corresponds with the Sanscrit " varun.a" ("fish"; through "n." I
try to reflect the Sanscrit orthography); Varuna's function was "the
Lord of
waters" in the sense of "the Lord of the (primordial) ocean", and his
counterpart in the Greek mythology is Poseidon. Then, the connection
of Ouranos
with light is a secondary or tertiary phenomenon.

Leo Kokun

NOTE: t.c.s.a. comment: Does the above: "the etymology of the
Greek "Ouranos" is presumably
Indo-European, and it corresponds with the Sanscrit " varun.a"
("fish";
through "n." I
try to reflect the Sanscrit orthography); Varuna's function was "the
Lord of
waters,,,etc.

connect historically, that is, are Ouranos and Varun.a referring to
Oe? is it the same story, or conversely is Oe referring to Ouranos
and Varun.a?

Robert Temple's, "The Sirius Mystery" page 266
PRESERVED BY PHOTIUS, (c. A.D. 820-c. 893]
PRESERVED IN THE FORM OF A SUMMARY (Codex 279)

(Helladius) recounts the story of a man named Oe who came out of the
Red Sea
having a fish-like body
but the head, feet and arms of a man, and who taught astronomy and
letters.
Some accounts say that he came out of a great egg whence his name,
and that
he was acttually a man, but only seemed a fish because he was clothed
in
"the skin of a sea creature'. Helladius account is extremely
valuable, the
more so because it is confirmed by the extant pictorial
representations of
this wise being [called 'the egg-born'] who exited in a strange suit
from
some kind of a vessal - likened to an egg - that fell into the sea.
Hyginus,
Manilius and Xanthus all furnish other corroborating details,
speaking of
gods inhonor of whom the fish-form is sacred, who plunged form the
sky into
the waters of the Euphrates. In another
varian [found in the commentary in Germanicus edition of Aratus] the
power
of the holy fish pushed ashore on the banks of the Euphartes near
Babylon,
the "egg" out of which the "deity" appeared. Before it landed in the
waters,
the egg-like vessel was of a luminous appearance. Thus the hitroian
Sozomen
tells us that the same type of deity desended into the Euphrates
as "a fiery
star" from the sky...[t.c.s.a. alien comment: "a fiery star outer
space>"] Just as these visitants capsules in the water were
remembered as
'eggs' from which higher men in fish-garb emerged, so the capsules
when they
were in the sky were metaphorically described as great fiery BIRDS or
griffons...or, again, as winged figures or deific men flying in a
winged
ring or capsule..."SPACE VISITORS" we would call them today. end page
266.
I find this interesting in regards that Robert Temple's knowledge of
the
Dogan and the Sirius contact came down to him through Arthur Young.
See
Cosmic Trigger Robert Anton Wilson: Saul Paul Sirag's Afterwords, and
of
course connects again to Jack Sarfatti, through the association to
Arthur
Young and Sirag via Esalen and the PCRG.

[t.c.s.a. caps and comment: Here we have the usage once again of the
word
'Visitors' referring to E.T.s.

I have researched the usage of the word 'Visitors' and found it first
came from outer space" movie with same name released in 1953, read: Uri
Geller and Jack Sarfatti's 1953 Contact experiences

http://stardrive.org/cartoon/spectra.html

,] and takes place in the sheriff's office wherein the hero an Astronomer recieves a TELEPHONE
call from the E.T's who tell him they are in a CAVE [reminiscent of
Plato's cave? as archetype? 03:08p.m.] and have abducted his girl-friend lover
[also the first people they abducted were "telephone linemen" this occurs in
Arizona.] and he is to come there alone if he wants to see her.

The Alien cuts the communique, hangs up the telephone and the
Astronomer says to the sheriff,

"Now do you believe we have some "Visitors from outer space."

[03:09p.m.
08-24-04]

SO ... it is NOT Whitley Streiber who first used the term Visitors in
reference to E.T.

The reason I mention this is in regards Jack Sarfatti asking Dan
Smith why Dan refers to E.T. as Visitors? I think I have solved that?,note the
coincidental year:
1953.

Also in regards UR see:

http://www.theoi.com/Ouranos/Ouranos.html
Uranus:
OURANOS was the solid dome of the sky and one of the ancient element
gods called PROTOGENOI. He was the first ruler of the universe but was
castrated and deposed by his son Kronos.

THE END:

[06:15p.m.c.d.t. 08-24-04]

:trixcleverspacealien

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:30:10 -0700
From: Jack Sarfatti
Subject: Metric Engineering 101 Problem Set 1

1.1 Do a comparative analysis of the CERN document

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/search.py?recid=789638&ln=en

and the NIDS documents

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/vallee_davis.pdf

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/vallee_davis_ppt.pdf

Point out strengths and weaknesses in each.

1.2 What is wrong with Hal Puthoff's statement:

On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:38 PM, Puthoff@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/24/2004 4:44:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
sarfatti@pacbell.net writes:
Metric engineering is the control of the phase of the vacuum coherence.
Puthoff, Davis, Haisch, Vallee and all the Boys at NIDS, NASA BPP,
MITRE, BAE et-al have not the slightest inkling of what this is.

Wrong again.  Proper control of K in the PV model IS control of vacuum
coherence, just like ZPE mode suppression between Casimir plates IS
control of interference patterns by boundary conditions.  You've never
gotten this, have you?  (Others have.)  Wake up and smell the chai!

You can continue to say the above as often as you like, but, unlike
Picard, it does not make it so!  :-)

Hal

What does Hal mean by "K"?

In his simplest charge neutral SSS model

K = e^2GM/c^2r

Where does the "vacuum coherence" appear in Hal's formula?

What is Hal Puthoff's definition of "vacuum coherence"?

Hint: He has yet to publish one.

Assuming Hal comes up with a definition of "vacuum coherence" precise
enough to compare with his "K", are we talking about the same idea?

Where does the term "vacuum coherence" appear in any of Hal's papers?
Ditto for the recent paper by Vallee and Davis.

Where does the term "dark energy"appear in any of Hal's papers? Ditto
for the recent paper by Vallee and Davis.

Where and when does Hal discuss the relationships among "dark energy",
"K" and "vacuum coherence"?

Where does Hal give a practical procedure, in principle as a
gedankexperiment at least, for how to control K significantly and how
to make K < 1?

Jack Sarfatti's solution to problem 1.2 for the historical record.

For the record. Here is my ORIGINAL formula for the above problem using
Hal's PV model that is not found in any of his papers. For a uniform
exotic vacuum distribution of positive zero point pressure, i.e. a
uniform sphere of "dark matter" of radius r* like the Galactic Halo,
assuming Hal's wrong PV model, then

GM is replaced by -c^2/\zpfr*^3 neglecting small rational factors of pi

In the conventions used exotic vacuum /\zpf < 0 gravitates as "dark
matter" and /\zpf > 0 anti-gravitates as "dark energy".

Therefore, at least for r > r*

K = e^-2/\zpfr*^3/r

Note that K > 1 for /\zpf < 0, i.e. for gravitating "dark matter"
attractive phase of exotic vacuum.

K < 1 for /\zpf > 0, i.e. for anti-gravitating "dark energy" repulsive
phase of exotic vacuum.

Furthermore

/\zpf = (Quantum of Area)^-1[(Quantum of Volume)|Vacuum Coherence|^2 -
1]

Where "Vacuum Coherence" is a LOCAL complex scalar field that derives
primarily from a virtual electron-positron pair condensate whose phase
gives Einstein's metric field guv.

Where does Hal say anything like that or anything at all about the
subject?

On Aug 24, 2004, at 12:33 PM, art wagner wrote:

From: "Paulo Santos"
To: alcubierrewarpdrive2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alcubierre Warp Drive] NEW CERN review about warpdrive
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:00:21 -0000

For all of you who need to know more about FTL travel, I have posted
a review in CERN as an open document called Interstellar travel
through spacetime manipulation.

the site is

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/search.py?recid=789638&ln=en

Fernando also helped revising the document, specially in the Manyfold
Universe theory part. The article is very easy to read even to non
experts. The article takes only a few minutes to read.

Paulo

On Aug 18, 2004, at 4:51 PM, lensman@stardrive.org wrote:

Jack, latest from Eric Davis and Valle at NIDS.

Begin forwarded message:

2 long articles worth reading from Jacques Valle and Eric Davis.

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/vallee_davis.pdf

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/vallee_davis_ppt.pdf

On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:15 PM, Dan Smith wrote:

Jack,

Evidently then, metric engineering is a form of (hopefully) controlled
eschatology. The end result need not be so far from what the
religionists have been talking about, when they talk about Rapture, Golden Gates,
Hieros Gamos, etc.

Should we doubt that if the EBEs were involved in our religious
events, that one purpose was to prepare us for this eventuality? Again, we need to
see if [deleted for national security reasons] or any others here have
further information.

You may argue that the spiritual overtones would complicate the
impending politics of metric engineering. They might, but, based on history,
these overtones will be unavoidable, and, on further thought, may well be
beneficial in helping to facilitate the inevitable. We have something
new, as well as something old.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Sarfatti [mailto:sarfatti@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 5:44 PM
To: Dan Smith
Subject: Re: Eschatology 101

On Aug 24, 2004, at 2:03 PM, Dan Smith wrote:

Jack,

Well, it would make life easier for all of us if the two possible
types of eschaton could be dealt with separately. But since both you
and I are
monists, it should come as no surprise to us, anyway, that there could
be a close relation between the mental and physical aspects of
eschatology.

A false distinction: "Mental" and "material" are limiting cases of
"physical". If you mean "moral" that is a different category. Then you
are talking
politics not science.

The fact that we cannot put reality asunder, as Descartes and every
modernist is wont to do, does make our present eschatological
predicament just that much more difficult.

The fact that this unadulterated eschatology may be more difficult to
sell to the Pentagon, does NOT make it any less real, or any less
problematic.

In fact, the 'mental' and 'physical' aspects of the Eschaton can and
probably will 'constructively' interfere so as to amplify small
effects into something earthshaking.

"Mental" = "BIT" (Wheeler) = "GIANT PILOT WAVE" (Sarfatti extending
Bohm) = "Thoughtlike" (Stapp)

"Material" = "IT"(wheeler) = "HIDDEN VARIABLE" (Bohm) = "Rocklike"
(Stapp)

Micro-quantum theory sans consciousness sans telepathy (signal
nonlocality) is ONE-WAY

"IT FROM BIT" (Wheeler)

i.e. matter emergent from unconscious mind

Macro-quantum theory of consciousness with paranormal RV and
psychotronic weaponry in the Eschatological ET Arsenal, i.e. "signal
nonlocality" (violating Hawking's new belief in "unitarity" at GR 17
Dublin) is TWO-WAY

IT FROM BIT + BIT FROM IT (Sarfatti)

i.e. No action without reaction.

That is the bad news. The good news is that we can use this same
amplifying power to steer the process into a 'reaction channel' that
is more
beneficial or less harmful to all concerned.

Werner Erhard's "est" connected with "Steersman".

Another way to grasp these concepts is to consider them from the point
of view of transportation 'technology'. Your favored mode of
transport
is via energic propulsion, while mine is via 'portal'.

A false distinction: Dark energy is used to create time travel portals.
Like walking through a door for instant teleportation to a different
place and time possibly even in a different universe. Very much like
the virtual digital reality in the "Matrix" films since reality is BIT
as well as IT and the latter is emergent from the former. My equations
show this precisely!

Current military hardware are like Edwin Abbott's 2D Flatlanders with
ET as 3D beings. This is only meant as analogy not literally.

However, if the emphasis is on metric engineering, that difference
would not be so great.

Indeed, it is non-existent. Of course Puthoff never gets to this
level. Vallee and Davis flirt with it.

In the former case, the propulsion effects could trigger a phase
shift in the vacuum
energy state which would be chain reactive. In the latter case the
portals themselves could become unstable in regard to size and number.

http://qedcorp.com/APS/ice9.wav

Metric engineering is the control of the phase of the vacuum coherence.
Puthoff, Davis, Haisch, Vallee and all the Boys at NIDS, NASA BPP,
MITRE, BAE et-al have not the slightest inkling of what this is. Like
[deleted for national security reasons] at DIA they simply stick their
heads in the sand and then
wonder why they are kicked in the @\$\$! :-)

This is just a very rough outline, pointing to similarities and
contrasts. I would suspect that some answers to these questions are
to be found in
[deleted for national security reasons]. It is too bad that Kit and
Hal have not been able
to facilitate our communication with [deleted for national security
reasons] in regards to these critical
matters.

Dan

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:44:03 -0700
From: Jack Sarfatti
Subject: Re: Metric Engineering 101 Problem Set 1 Part II

PS Let me for the record explicitly address Hal's

Wrong again.  Proper control of K in the PV model IS control of
vacuum coherence, just like ZPE mode suppression between Casimir
plates IS control of interference patterns by boundary conditions.
You've never gotten this, have you?  (Others have.)  Wake up and
smell the chai!

There Hal goes again dragging in the dead cat of the QED Casimir force,
which has nothing to do with the direct gravity effect of zero point
energy. Hal seems to equate

"ZPE mode suppression" with "vacuum coherence".

This is not what I mean by "vacuum coherence".

First of all, Hal is only thinking of random virtual photons trapped
between two plates. I am thinking of a "More is different" local
complex order parameter from a vacuum condensate of virtual
electron-positron pairs.

How does Hal propose to get warp drives and wormholes from the tiny
Casimir force between two plates?

The direct gravity effect of zero point energy has nothing at all to do
with the Casimir force, nor do you need plates particularly. It has to
do with the Einstein field equation for the exotic vacuum that is

Guv + /\zpfguv = 0

In any case I challenge Hal to make some simple mathematical models of
what he means by

"just like ZPE mode suppression between Casimir plates IS control of
interference patterns by boundary conditions"

And how that helps in the quest to metric engineer warp drives and
traversable wormhole time travel star gates?

On Aug 24, 2004, at 5:30 PM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:

1.1 Do a comparative analysis of the CERN document

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/search.py?recid=789638&ln=en

and the NIDS documents

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/vallee_davis.pdf

http://www.nidsci.org/pdf/vallee_davis_ppt.pdf

Point out strengths and weaknesses in each.

1.2 What is wrong and or right with Hal Puthoff's statement:

On Aug 24, 2004, at 3:38 PM, Puthoff@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/24/2004 4:44:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
sarfatti@pacbell.net writes:
Metric engineering is the control of the phase of the vacuum
coherence.
Puthoff, Davis, Haisch, Vallee and all the Boys at NIDS, NASA BPP,
MITRE, BAE et-al have not the slightest inkling of what this is.

Wrong again.  Proper control of K in the PV model IS control of
vacuum coherence, just like ZPE mode suppression between Casimir
plates IS control of interference patterns by boundary conditions.
You've never gotten this, have you?  (Others have.)  Wake up and
smell the chai!

You can continue to say the above as often as you like, but, unlike
Picard, it does not make it so!  :-)

Hal

Dark Energy makes Hal Puthoff's PV parameter K < 1, which is what he wants. His theory is no good to reach the stars and beyond, but it's testable, and this is an interesting property of it even though his theory is wrong. M theory and loop theory, so far, are in W. Pauli's words "not even wrong."

What does Hal mean by "K"?

In his simplest charge neutral SSS model

K = e^2GM/c^2r

Where does the "vacuum coherence" appear in Hal's formula?

What is Hal Puthoff's definition of "vacuum coherence"?

Hint: He has yet to publish one.

Assuming Hal comes up with a definition of "vacuum coherence" precise
enough to compare with his "K", are we talking about the same idea?

Where does the term "vacuum coherence" appear in any of Hal's papers?
Ditto for the recent paper by Vallee and Davis.

Where does the term "dark energy"appear in any of Hal's papers? Ditto
for the recent paper by Vallee and Davis.

Where and when does Hal discuss the relationships among "dark energy",
"K" and "vacuum coherence"?

Where does Hal give a practical procedure, in principle as a
gedankexperiment at least, for how to control K significantly and how
to make K < 1?

Jack Sarfatti's solution to problem 1.2 for the historical record.

For the record. Here is my ORIGINAL formula for the above problem
using Hal's PV model that is not found in any of his papers. For a
uniform exotic vacuum distribution of positive zero point pressure,
i.e. a uniform sphere of "dark matter" of radius r* like the Galactic
Halo, assuming Hal's wrong PV model, then

GM is replaced by -c^2/\zpfr*^3 neglecting small rational factors of
pi

In the conventions used exotic vacuum /\zpf < 0 gravitates as "dark
matter" and /\zpf > 0 anti-gravitates as "dark energy".

Therefore, at least for r > r*

K = e^-2/\zpfr*^3/r

Note that K > 1 for /\zpf < 0, i.e. for gravitating "dark matter"
attractive phase of exotic vacuum.

K < 1 for /\zpf > 0, i.e. for anti-gravitating "dark energy"
repulsive phase of exotic vacuum.

Furthermore

/\zpf = (Quantum of Area)^-1[(Quantum of Volume)|Vacuum Coherence|^2 -
1]

Where "Vacuum Coherence" is a LOCAL complex scalar field that derives
primarily from a virtual electron-positron pair condensate whose phase
gives Einstein's metric field guv.

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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:45:40 -0400
From: "Joel Isaacson"
Subject: Taurus-Auriga Lore...

Confession:

As of today's early afternoon I knew nothing about Auriga, and thought that
Taurus is a popular Ford sedan... Now that the Auriga-Taurus hypothesis
showed up in the Ur-ziggurat code (and the Sarfatti-code) I Googled
"Auriga+Taurus+UFO", just out of sheer curiosity... Surprisingly,
quite a few hits... One sample, a book for sale on Amazon:

Here Be Dragons: The Scientific Quest for Extraterrestrial Life
by David W. Koerner, Simon Levay

[....]

From Library Journal
Planetary scientist Koerner and neuroanatomist LeVay have written a clear,
concise, and engaging overview of the hypotheses, experiments, explorations,
and issues that surround exobiology, the search for life forms, intelligent
beings, and advanced civilizations elsewhere in the universe. Their
radio telescope in Puerto Rico to emerging star systems throughout our
galaxy. One becomes acutely aware of both the technological challenges of
exobiological research and the philosophical ramifications should life as we
know it (or don't know it) be found on other worlds. Topics critically
discussed range from the origin of life on Earth to extrasolar planets and
the Taurus-Auriga molecular cloud. Koerner and LeVay excel at making complex
empirical information both comprehensive and relevant. Fascinating, and
inspiring, and rich in ideas, this is highly recommended for all science
collections.
-H. James Birx, Canisius Coll., Buffalo, NY
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So, clearly, some people have alraedy considered "Taurus-Auriga molecular
cloud"
for possible origins of some kind.... the coincidence is interesting, to
say the least...

=jdi=

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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:39:51 +0200
From: "scerir"
Subject: Re: The Ur-Mensch and Fulcanelli

From: "Berkant"

Serafino Cerulli-Irelli, your homepage is not working anymore.
What happened?

Hi, well my son is playing with it ... at the present status is
.... blank! As far as I remember there was not so much in it.
the (von Weizsaecker & Finkelstein) self-measurement problem
in QM. I mean a "self-interaction governed by an internal parameter
instead of time", as D. Finkelstein called it. And this reminds me
of an unknown italian poet (XVIII sec.) who wrote: "Era il tempo
che il tempo ancor nun era tempo". More or less something like:
"Once upon a time, the time wasn't yet time"

pag. 60]: "There is, to be sure, a genuine problem in the phenomenon
of quantum measurement, but I will not discuss it here. It
concerns *introspective* systems, where subject = object so
that the basic conception of a single subject observing an
ensemble of objects must be modified."

More references, on Goedel-ish issues in QM are:
-Arthur Komar, "Undecidability of Macroscopically Distinguishable
States in Quantum Field Theory", Physical Review, 133, (1964), p. B542
-Asher Peres, "Measurement of Time by Quantum Clocks", American Journal
of Physics, 48, (1980), p. 552
- Asher Peres, W.H. Zurek, "Is Quantum Theory Universally Valid?",
American Journal of Physics, 50, (1982), p. 807
- David. Z. Albert, "On Quantum-Mechanical Automata", Physics Letters,
98.A, (1983), p, 249
- Asher Peres, "On Quantum-Mechanical Automata", Physics Letters,
101.A, (1984), p. 249
- Asher Peres, "Einstein, Godel, Bohr", Foundations of Physics,
15, (1985), p. 201
- Peter Mittelstaedt, "The Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics and
the Measurement Process", CAmbridge U.P., 1998.
- Thomas Breuer, Quantenmechanick - Ein Fall fuer Goedel?, Spectrum,
Heidelberg, 1996
- Thomas Breuer, Classical Observables, Measurement and Quantum Mechanics,
Ph.D. Thesis, Un. of Cambridge, 1994
- Thomas Breuer, many papers (and those here above) at
http://www.staff.fh-vorarlberg.ac.at/tb/tbpublisteengl.html
- Karl Svozil, "Randomness and Undecidability in Physics",
Singapore, World Scientific, 1993

Did you know that Irelli means "one with a big hand" in Turkish.
In Turkish you can say with one word where you need several words in
other languages.

Now, your name Turkish name Irelli rhymes to Fulcanelli.
Or was it originally Urelli or maybe Turelli?:-)

As far as I know Irelli is the original family name (going back
to the XVIII sec., but not more). The are, still, few Irellis
in Abruzzo, Italy, esp. in the province of Teramo (Adriatic coast).
many times in the dark ages! See below something about Lepanto
battle.

The strange thing here (I mean, with my family name) is the
extravagant similarity between Ceru-lli and Ire-lli. In fact
they were two distinct original family names. But around
1850 a Cerulli married an Irelli (female, the *last* member
of Irelli family). So they made a double name "Cerulli
Irelli". It should be written with a "-" in between,
but "official" computers here do not accept the "-"
(in France they do!).

Lepanto, Oct. 7, 1571.
Naval battle between the Christians and Ottomans
fought at the mouth of the Gulf of Patras, off
Lepanto, Greece. The fleet of the Holy League
commanded by John of Austria (d. 1578) opposed
the Ottoman fleet under Uluç Ali Pasha.
The allied fleet (about 200 galleys, not counting
smaller ships) consisted mainly of Spanish, Venetian,
and papal ships and of vessels sent by a number
of Italian states. It carried approximately 30,000
fighting men and was about evenly matched with
the Ottoman fleet. The battle ended with the virtual
destruction of the Ottoman navy (except 40 galleys,
with which Uluç Ali escaped). Approximately 15,000
Turks were slain or captured, some 10,000 Christian
galley slaves were liberated, and much booty was taken.
The victors, however, lost over 7,000 men.
Among the allied wounded was Cervantes, who lost the use
of his left arm. Lepanto was the first major Ottoman
defeat by the Christian powers, and it ended the myth
of Ottoman naval invincibility. It did not, however,
affect Ottoman supremacy on the land, and a new Turkish
fleet was speedily built by Sokollu, grand vizier
of Selim II. Nevertheless, the battle was decisive
in the sense that an Ottoman victory probably would
have made the Ottoman Empire supreme in the Mediterranean.

Don John's hunting, and his hounds have bayed-
Booms away past Italy the rumour of his raid.
Gun upon gun, ha! ha!
Gun upon gun, hurrah!
- G. K. Chesterton, 'Lepanto'